The Art of Photography With Stanley Aryanto

Hey Wicked Hunters, Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast with Stanley Aryanto. This week we will be chatting with Supriya and how she took control of her life when she quit her position as bank manager and found photography Meanderquest is the handle name for all the visual work done by artist Supriya Samal. Supriya is a photographer, digital artist, generative artist, and writer. She started her journey into photography while still working as an officer in the bank. It was also the time when she got diagnosed with Clinical Depression.   Hence, photography became a part of her healing process. She traveled with her partner and found a world of art outside the struggles of mind. Photography and digital art made her discover her strengths, mindset, and inner power. She also blends photography and digital art to create subtle yet meaningful abstract art. Mental Health and Art are her core focus in life.   Website: https://www.meanderquest.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/meanderquest Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/meanderquest NFTart: https://www.meanderquest.com/nft-art-work   Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: • Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify   • Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography   • Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr   • Website: https://podcast.thewickedhunt.com      • Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr     For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography by Stanley Aryanto: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/  • Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/thewickedhunt/  • Photo prints: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/   Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation. It would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.  ------------ Transcription: Supriya Samal From Meanderquest  0:00  Can't go through it anymore. It's just not helping me at all. And when this my health became bad, that was the last straw for me Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:09  Hey, Wicked Hunters Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast by Stanley Aryanto, where we share photographers journey and how they find hope, purpose and happiness through photography. And today we have someone that I've met through Instagram and we've been connected all the way through all this time. And you know, I've seen her journey since the very first time she was, you know, asking on how to capture the first Milky Way and she just kept growing. It's just such an inspiration to to see her journey through photography and how it changed her life. So today, we have Supriya Hey, Supriya, how are you today? Supriya Samal From Meanderquest  0:55  Hey, Sandy, I'm doing good. How are you doing? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:59  I'm doing well. I'm doing well. I'm so glad that you know, you made it here. And I know you have an inspiring story behind your photography, as well as you know, behind your life. So I'd love I'd love to, for you to share that because I know that the audience cannot find a lot of inspiration from it. But you know, you we cannot connect through Instagram, right? The first message you asked me, I think clubhouse was the first one I can't remember. Yes, yeah. And then you need to see your eyes about like the Milky Way. And the next thing I know is like, you just capture this crazy Mercury shot. So that's, that's amazing. But you know, before we get there, how does the passion for photography come to you like, what makes you want to do photography in the beginning? Yes. Supriya Samal From Meanderquest  1:50  So first of all, I would like to thank you for inviting me to this podcast regarding my journey, so initially, actually, I didn't have any idea regarding photography, or whatsoever. It all started back in 2017 2017 2018. So the thing is, I was actually going through clinical depression. So and at that time, I was working as a full time working as a bank manager. And it's been six years. But there was something missing, you know, in that day to day life. And with clinical depression, it only got worse for me. So at one point, I was hospitalised and my health was quite worse. So my husband, Sam, he proposed like, Let's go somewhere, you know, so we planned a trip to the Himalayas. And there was this village, those Rukwa it's like, the border village in the northern side of India. So we went to that village, it was a quite an off road. And like hardly any, you will hardly find any car or bike, you know, going there. So we were like the only persons going there. And the road was pretty bad. And we had like a near death experience that day, because we were at 13,000 feet. I remember, it was a pass mountain pass. And suddenly the cloud came from nowhere. And our houseguest. He has warned us like, you know, don't spend much time there. It's very beautiful. But you know, don't get tempted. So, but we were there and we wanted to take some pictures. So we took some pictures. And suddenly the cloud came and as we were, as we started to, you know, go down, said we didn't even know the car. No, it was on an automatically it shut down. And it was just riding down the mountain road. It was luckily, we thought like we were hearing some music. And luckily it stopped and I was like, why we're not hearing the music. Then we realised Okay, the car is not running. So Sam started the car and we were just you know, just on the edge of that road. So we stopped there. And you know, we got out of the car and I was like taking deep breaths. And I was thinking like, what am I doing with my life? It was like those moments, you know, and then we went to that quiet little village. It was a very beautiful, you know, old wooden houses and like they have preserved their mountain culture and everything. And now the beauty of that place was so good. I started taking some pictures on my phone. Sam had a camera back then because he was doing photography, you know, taking travel shots. He was a biker so he does that I had no idea how to operate a camera. But I was taking on my mobile camera and he had, he actually had to take a shot. And he was doing trying it. And he said, like, it's not coming as I want. So I was like, let me try. So, you know, I tried the camera and I took a shot and, and he said, like, yeah, I want you to take this one. So I was like, okay. No idea. But, you know, there was something like, when I hold it, and you know, I looked through the viewfinder, I took that one first photo. It's not that good. But you know, that the first feeling of doing that, like, you are doing something, you know. So after that, when we came back, I decided to quit my job. And we thought, like, you know, let's do this travel thing, because I was already feeling a little bit good, health wise. So we started travelling for the next three months. And during this time, I started taking pictures, like random pictures that I took. And but then when we came to Germany in 2019, so I got my first camera. And from there onwards, like, till today, I never look back. It was like, quite a journey for me. learning everything, but I enjoyed every bit of it. Because I sometimes think to myself, if not for photography, if not for travel, I would not have been where I am today. No. So it's it's like a blessing for me. Yes, clinical depression is something one shouldn't think of happening to someone else. But it was like a blessing for me. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  6:48  Wow. That's, that's crazy, right? I mean, it's sometimes we take our lives for granted so much, until we need to hit that rock bottom, you know, and for you, it was like that near death experience, you know, on the car, like, just on the side. Like, I mean, like, I don't know exactly how it is. But you know, I was, I was just came from Nepal, and then we go through that kind of roads. So I think I kinda can picture you know, what you mean, with the crazy road and stuff like that. And, like, so nervous when you when you eat when you share that story? That's crazy. So, you know, so it seems like photography and travel have really just deceived yourself, it has changed your life. Yeah. How, but share us a little bit more about it, right? How does it actually change your life, you know, how taking photos and going on trips, makes you happier, and, you know, become less depressed. And, you know, essentially, where you are today, where you are feeling a lot better about your life, I take it. Yeah, give us a little bit more about that journey, because I'm pretty sure our audience would love to hear that. Supriya Samal From Meanderquest  7:58  And yeah, so like, what happened when we started travelling. And initially, it was only you know, to mountains and places, because we both love spending time on mountains. And at that time, like now, also I write daily, so when we used to go on our travels, and all on the mountains. So there were some times when I was like, not thinking of anything, and just enjoying that place. You know, so the living on those moments, was like, I was experiencing something for the first time, like, on the daily basis, when we run to Office, do our work, all the stuff, you know, we forget to take those moments to ourselves. And just think about, like, where my life is going on, or just not think about anything at all. So it was those moments and the same thing I felt when I hold the camera. So like if I'm taking a photo, I just immerse myself so much, that I can't think of anything happening in my surroundings, literally nothing. And I'm the kind of person who doesn't enjoy hikes, right? I had never done any hikes before in my life. And it was only during those time. And this photography actually inspired me to go on hikes to you know, to break that boundary like that those limitations we put on ourselves. So that was like some very first things which were happening to me. And I had only heard these things from Sam because he was travelling in before me and and I was like, okay, just saying stuff. But when I experienced all those things, I was like I understood the you know the reality of it and why someone should do it and also like in travel, you meet people, you experience different cultures, you talk to them, you hear their story. And you understand like, the problems you think, you know, in you have in your life is like, so minuscule compared to what is happening in this world. And you are just in your bubble thinking about, Oh, this thing happened to me, that thing happened to me which is, which is not, it is very trivial. And in the bigger terms of life, so these are the learnings, which I get no experiencing. And regarding my depression, so, like, I was, I was in that kind of point, where my mental health was so bad, I was not talking to anyone to like any person, you know, to my friends, to my family, except them. And when you are travel, when you're travelling, you're meeting people, you're, you know, forced to have that conversation, sometimes you can't just, you know, keep mom don't say anything, it can't happen. And when they're a new person you are, it's like something new, you want to know about them. So you have to have that conversation. And like, it's, it's so intriguing, it's so interesting to learn about people. So, that also, you know, dissipate my that afraid I like I was very afraid to interact with people. So that also went away. Like the thing which is happening today, I would not have thought of doing this because I am so afraid of you know, interacting with someone. But yeah, this travel and photography, both of these helped me so so, so much. And I actually met many interesting people who have spent their life in such a way in such hardships, and yet they have so many interesting stuff to share from their life experience. And it was worth knowing, like, in this lifetime, you got to meet them and learn about them. And, yeah, that was the thing. All of this, you know, helped me with my mental health and, and my photography journey. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  12:17  That's incredible, you know, just Just hearing that I'm very happy. Much the same way. And you know why I love photography and travel, I know exactly what you mean, you know, being in the present. I remember when I was when there was a COVID Right. Now a lot of my clients is like, broken down, and a lot of my income was going to stop and I was stressed about money. And then you know, when like, I'm living here in Bali, and I wouldn't give them to like, you know, give 2000 or 5000 rupee or tips, which is not even $1, right, it's about 50 cents or 20 cents, and they are the most grateful and you know, when so I know exactly what you mean, you know, we we live in a bubble and we always look at social media and seems like we need to be like that, you know, like is simple to be happy. Right? And of course, we still need all that money to buy all of our gears because the target that is the worst. It's funny, because like, when I was in Canada, you know, like I had a car and everything. But just to put that in perspective that what I have in my bag is a lot more precious than everything else in the car, I was just like, including the car, just like holy, it's crazy. But that's, you know, it brings happiness. So when you were a bank manager, um, you know, you're in a really good place, right? Being a manager, it's a dream for a lot of people to be a manager, you know, it's a lot of people are working hard to get up there and obviously work hard to get there, right. You're a bank manager, I'm guessing you know, you're getting that really good income, you'll get really good benefit or comfortable financially, but what's missing? Why why is it that you're still you know, unhappy and depressed about it and how does that change when you and what what makes you decide to leave that career and start something different or try something? Supriya Samal From Meanderquest  14:21  Okay, actually, to narrate about that experience I need to go back a little bit further. So I did my graduation in pharmacy. And after that, I worked for a year in a pharmaceutical company as a Quality Assurance Manager and it was in Goa. So like in India go up people treat it like okay that is is such a place near to the sea. It's beautiful. It's actually a beautiful place, but people go there to you know, have their holidays, and I was working there and during like on the weekends Whenever we visit, see, I would see people in, you know, spending the holidays and everything. And I was like, why I'm not feeling that experience, I am in a place which people all over from India coming to spend their holiday, I should feel that, you know, but then I was when I was working there in that company, I was like, No, something is missing. So I thought like, maybe because this is a private sector or corporate sector, I'm not feeling it. So I should try something different. So I gave the exams and got the job in a government bank in India. So when I went there, and the first day when I met my manager, it's an interesting story. When I met my manager, he asked me like, Okay, you did graduation in pharmacy? Why do you asked me like, why did you choose to come and join the bank? And I was like, why this person is asking me this ridiculous question. And like, after, after, like, one month, I understood why that person was asking me that question. So and it was like, I was in my probation. So after three months, I had to leave that branch and go to some other branch. So my manager told me, you know, Supriya, I have very high hopes for you. You shouldn't, you know, you shouldn't continue in this bank, you should go somewhere else. Okay, you should tell me, where should I go now? Okay. I thought like, okay, maybe this is not working, you know, I should try something else. So I thought, what is the you know, highest job in India. So it was like the civil services. So I thought, okay, I love to travel, I want to travel. So maybe I should try for the foreign ambassador position. I know, there were exams. So I started studying for that. I even passed the exam, the written exams and the interview twice. Okay. But when I was preparing for the third time, I was still on to bank working. So when I was preparing for the third time, you know, this question came to my mind, every time when I was in the bank, when I was studying, it came to my mind, like, Am I doing it, right? Like, why I need this job. I'm saying, I know, I'm giving myself or using like, I want to travel, but that is not something this job entails, like okay, you got you will have, you will have the opportunity to travel, but you will have lots of other responsibilities as well, because you will be working for a nation you have, you know, you should be able to justify that. So, it got poking in my mind again and again. And when I was in the office now working, and I was thinking like, okay, the scenario is not going to change. I will be you know, working in an office with other colleagues, you know, there will be other people, but it will be the same office, I will have to sit inside this four walls and work. And okay, I will have a little bit more opportunity to travel then this banking career. But that's not just enough. So this question is what you know, I didn't write the exam that year. I decided like, okay, no, this is the time this is the high time. I know, I was continuing. But that was the last time I was like, it's everything, you know, you feel like a choking that feeling inside yourself. And it's just not enough. Like you see everyone else enjoying it. But you are like the one person I was feeling sometimes in the bank. You know, everyone else is just running. And I'm the only person sitting in that desk. And I'm just wondering about my life. It was like that. So yeah, that was a very tough decision to take. Because knowing like, you don't, you will not have your next paycheck coming for you. And it was like, you know, we were just married back then. And it was only six months. But and it was lot to you know, ask from your partner. No. So it's not something I had decided from a long back that I will do and you know, you you got to talk about it. It was not something like that, but I'm lucky on on that matter that you know, Sam was very understanding because he wanted to do all this stuff. So yeah, so that was the thing that led me to quit my job. I am saying it sincerely, Stanley. I had no idea what I was going to do. But I knew that I'm going to do something, you know. And when we took that trip, like I said, So I At this, I had this idea came to my mind, like, I should do photography, I should write about my experiences. So that was it. And like any Asian, you know, parents, my parents were not that, you know, agreeable to me leaving my job. But yeah, with time, I hope they will come around like my mom, she understands it now, my father is still a bit hung up on that, but I know with time he will come around it. So yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  20:35  Wow, that's, that's really cool. You know, I know, it's how hard it is to leave that secure life. And I think what's really cool is that you keep and you keep looking for the answer, right? You try this one thing. And most people when they get stuck on, you know, get comfortable in that job, even though they don't like it, they just keep going by you go out there and try something else, and you try something else. And there you are finding something that, you know, of course, it's not perfect, because nothing is perfect. Right? It comes with the struggle and everything. But it's something that seems like you know, it's good for your health, making you happier as a person and helps you with the depression as well, which is fantastic by massive congratulations for doing that. I'm very happy to do that. So, you know, like when you quit your job? So, tell me this one thing? So are you doing photography full time now? Or what are some of the ways you are doing in order to find that income, you know, and to offset to offset the income from your previous job? Because I know, we all love photography, and we all wish that all we got to do that all we can do is take photo and travel. But unfortunately, we all need money, right? So then what did you decide to do to find that income? And how is that transition kind of work for you? Supriya Samal From Meanderquest  21:59  Okay, so, like for the initial two years, I had some savings, you know, from my previous job, which I knew I can depend upon. So that was my safety net. But then actually, when we move to Germany, here, there is a little problem when it comes to approaching clients or anything, it's that you have to learn the language, you have to know the language. So I actually wanted to join the language courses, but then COVID came and all those restrictions, the classes were not happening now, although stuff and afterwards I started learning on my own, but it was not that efficient, because the you have to give the exams and everything here. So that I will be doing now like I have already enrolled in learning the German language classes. So I will be doing it now. But yes, like after the second year, I started approaching some brands. And I had worked with some and like some were paid, and some were, you know, not paid, like just they got to the what the things which you wanted, and there was some hotel collaborations on our trips. So that was like, a good thing happened. I also, when we were on Matera trip, I also did a collaboration with our Airbnb house owner. So that was my first thing happening. So apart from that, I also did some, like paid gigs here, like there, some people want to take the portraits or there was an event in our Old City, it was happening for the farmers market. So I did a paid gig then. So it was like that, like small small gigs. But I also when last year when I joined NFT space. So that also was a source of income. And now, like after learning the language, I want to properly establish, you know, my business here, I want to register and everything because that's what you need in Germany. And yeah, after that, I want to approach the clients because Munich being a big city, here you have even more opportunity. So I'm looking forward to that and I'm quite positive about it. So Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  24:45  yeah, that's fantastic. You know, you know going and starting over basically from the having a nine to five and then you move to a different country and you have to learn the language and you know all of this struggle but you keep pushing through and I would We all know, as photographers and artists, we all know that, you know, photography is not an easy thing to make money. But I think what people don't understand is that almost everything else is not easy, right? It requires. Yeah, it's really fun. It's like, you know, as an engineer, I have to study for years, plus an extra one year for my master degree, right? So, five years, just study, when I quit my job and do photography, full time, I was expecting to be up and running in six months, it's not going to happen, you know, you have to learn how to do all these mistakes. So it's really funny how that mindset is just so different. But I'm glad that you're pushing through and you know, you get that you get, you push through, you know, a lot of this challenges to get to where you are today. So, what is some of the things that really, that you really passionate that really makes you excited when it comes to photography, like know, when you capture it or when you travel? What are some of the things that you look for? After your photos? Supriya Samal From Meanderquest  26:13  Yes, so my, when I started photography, it was initially the landscape, you know, so, I was quite drawn towards nature. I, I saw like Daniel cotton Albatros, you know, their photos and how they took it. And I was like, so fascinated about it. I was like, how how people do that? No, I want to learn that. So, that led me to, you know, different journeys on different trips. And every trip I learned something, like, I remember this trip in Germany, German Alps in Bucharest garden, okay. So there is this place called hinter z. So, I studied everything, you know, prepared everything before going to that place, and we went there. And, and the first sunrise, there was nothing happening, and no, no clouds, it was just a black sunrise, I enjoyed the sunrise came back. Then the second day, they went to the same place. And it was like, magnificent, you know, everything was so beautiful. And guess what? I took blurry pictures. And it's been like, what, seven months, I had been taking pictures. But at that moment, I took blurry pictures came back home thinking, Oh, we got some good shots. And when I looked into you know, I open this and MOLAP to lose it. Why? All this happened? How did I think blurry picture, then I understood, okay, this is the shitty tripod, which I put there. I should get a better tripod. So that was my first lesson, you know, because it was windy that morning. And I was there was the lake, the mountain I was trying to take the long exposure, and somehow everything got blurry. So So you know, after that, after that, actually, when I went in that trip only we went to another lake OBC. And then I saw photographers taking photos. And they were it was like, What 8am 8:30am and the sun was up. They were taking long exposures. And I saw they were using something you know, I didn't know about ND filters back then. And every experiences of mine, whatever I have learned it was on sale. I don't know what the hell I was researching over the Google. But Google never told me anything. So everything on sale. So I saw that. And I was like, I went to one photographer. He is a very known photographer in Austria. I went to him and I asked him, like, why you were using this? He looked definitely. He looked at me and I was like, this is an ND filter. I will say okay, what's the use? And then he explained me all the stuff. You know, I think that is something good about me. Like, I don't know, I'm not afraid of asking questions. I don't think for a second like what the other person is going to do you have a camera, you're taking photos and you're asking questions. But yeah, that's how I have learned actually on field. And that after that, I came home that day on my trade. And I he gave me some links, you know, from where I can read read about stuff. So I read a lot everything and I understood about it. And from there onwards, I got like a part how to, you know, look about stuff and how to prepare yourself before the trip and all those things. So that most of us think landscape, then, actually, when we went to Barcelona last year, like before that trip, I was a little bit of thinking like, Okay, I have only taken landscape photos, how I'm going to take any street shots, how I'm going to take any architecture shots, like, this is not something I have done. And another of my friend, Julia, she, that I met her also from Instagram, like you. So she was joining us in that trip, she lives in Madrid. So it was also new for her because she also takes only landscapes. So both of us, you know, went around exploring the city and taking all kinds of shots, you know, and it was quite fun. And after the trip, actually, I realised like, I don't have to, you know, put a pin on anything, but I do, like every photographer, you see the group, everyone grows. And this is why like, I had put a pin on my life, when I was working in that nine to five job, why I had to do the same in terms of creativity, I can grow. So that was the thing I do did Street and architecture, then I when I went to India this year, I took tribal portraits. So it's like, now I'm finding you know, everything, which I do, I want to do it in a better way. And that's the thing, I'm enjoying everything, everything related to photography. And even though astrophotography you know, that also, like, the nights you spent there standing, you know, alone and looking at the sky, that feeling that feeling is incredible. I don't want to partner with that feeling just because I take architecture shots, or you know, portrait stuff. No, I want to feel that also. So yeah, I'm going to try everything. So let's see. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  32:08  It's cool. Yeah, I think you know, I love the changes. You know, I don't like the one thing and I get bored easily. So I agree with you, I like to just be do everything right now. When it comes to branding, a lot of people say stick with one first. But at the end of the day, I think it's important to do what we love. And you know, don't let what has been done before restrict us from what we want to do. I think that's really important. So it's really cool. But I want to talk about the astrophotography there for a second. I remember that they were specifically I was running the webinar. And then you asked me about you know how to take you know, the Milky Way, because you're gonna go on the trip. And I was like away, so I didn't see your message. And then when I reply to you, you already like, you know, like, already went on the trip. And then after that you got to tracker and then you know, you just you grow really quick capturing that Milky Way, right. So tell me tell us a little bit about the jerky because shooting Milky Way is, first of all, a lot of people have a lot of restriction against it right? Go out there at my, you know, where it's dark, in the middle of nowhere. A lot of people first of all have beer doing that. But second of all, the technique and everything is very different. I know like it took me, I think about two years until I can finally successfully capture my first photo of the stars, and therefore you're not captured the motorway. But it takes a lot of a lot of a lot of journey to get there. So share with us a little bit about your journey behind your Milky Way and Astro photography, because I know that we grow very quickly and you learn very quickly and we go from asking me the question, start shooting tracker. So it's crazy. Supriya Samal From Meanderquest  34:02  Yeah, so regarding astrophotography actually, it was during the COVID. During the COVID I first saw your page on Instagram, and I saw those Milky Way shots. Even before that actually I remember in 2018 or something. I first saw one of the Milky Way shots from one Indian photographer. So it was like one image but when I came to your page, and I just saw all those images, I was like, quite hooked. And then I saw Joffrey. He was, you know going on shooting the Milky Way's I was like, What is this thing? No. Earlier I was thinking maybe this was all done in Photoshop or something, you know? And then when I saw your no so many images and then Joffrey going out there shooting I was like, I want to do this. What is this thing? I'm quite intrigued then I started reading about You know, it all the astrophotography stuff. So I asked you, you know, and then I asked to Joffrey or so. And I would search on Google like, it was like four months, I was just waiting because there was COVID restrictions and everything. So I was just reading about the stuff. And I would tell Sam every day, you know, I want to take a Milky Way shot in Madera. We had no plan whatsoever to go to Madera, you know, we were thinking of going to Slovenia, okay? And I was like, I want to go there. I don't know what about the place, I want to go there and want to take a Milky Way shot. So I read about everything. I, you know, ordered the new tripod. Okay, I ordered a new tripod and the lenses and everything. And the tracker thing, actually, it was taking some time to get delivered. In Germany, it was about a month or so. And we were about to go on a trip and 15 days. So I just madly searched over internet about Madeira photographer who is taking Astro shots, okay. And I got one, this person angry. So I contacted him. And we started talking. And I told him like, you know, we are coming to Missoula, and I want to take those Astro shots. And and I don't have a tracker. So like, can you listen to me or check? And he said yes. And he was like, okay, that will be fun, you know, to meet you guys. And so I was like, Okay, let's do that. And then we went to Madeira. And the first night, we planned to take photo, it was actually near lighthouse, okay, near the sea. And like your earlier mentioning about, you know, being afraid of the dark. If there is someone on this earth who is afraid of that it's me, like, in my own house. I get so afraid. So imagine me standing on a hill taking extra shots. It was like, that's the thing I love about photography, you know, I have done things which I would have never done in my life, if not for that. So. So we went to that lighthouse. And I wanted to take shots. It was not tracked shots. I just wanted to you know, experiment. And I learned about those 500 rule 400 rules. No. So I on the field when I was experimenting, and I asked Sam to you know, be the object of that whole scenario. So he was standing there, he was going back and forth. And I was like, okay, the stats are not that charts are blurry, the focus is not good. The entire night, we didn't sleep. And like, I think about like, after two or two and a half hours. I got what I wanted. Okay. But there was quite a bit like pollution because, you know, it wasn't the sea level and something and there was a lighthouse also. So the light, there was light pollution. But yeah, the stars were neat, and everything was good. And we took that and we came home. And then I was like, Okay, I now I want to take the track shots now that I know, I want to take the traction. So on the day when we went so our friend Andrey, he also joined us. And he had another whole setup for you know, deep sky photography with telescope and everything. And I was like, Whoa, that's one thing. I didn't know. That was a new thing for me. I was like, Okay, let me handle this small thing first and I will go for the bigger so he was setting up his and I had read about the you know, the polar star, you know, the alignment and everything. But with star tracker when you look through that, you know the tiny hole and do that polar alignment. Oh my god after after, like one hour. I was nearly blind. I was not able to see. The I was only looking through that one hole. No, no, no, Sam was trying. I was trying. It took us two hours to do the polar alignment. Okay. And we did the alignment by the time it was already dark. And but yeah, we did it. And then we took the panel shots. And it was in funnel forest. Okay. So in that forest, visited two cameras, one without tracker and one with tracker with tracker, I was taking the art shots. And another I took for the you know, to make the light trails, Star Trek sorry, star trails. So it was at one end of the forest. And it was another end of the forest. So in that dark night, we went you know, tries yeah food Times, and you know, you'll have if you have seen them funnel forest images, the tree is, you know, they look like something, you know those creatures, something like that. And imagine in the dark when you suddenly hit the light, turn them it was like, okay, something there, I was so afraid, I was just thinking about, Okay, think about the photos you are going to take, you know, that was my inspiration to go through that dark night. And the entire night I didn't we didn't sleep at all, like angry, he called us, you know, you guys too, should take some rest, you know, we should set up tent, you know, we should take some rest, and he'll go and sleep, I want to sleep. I was so excited. So, and we took all kinds of shots experimented, I also took that Andromeda galaxy shot. And then, you know, he showed us many objects, you know, many stars on the sky he showed us. So that was you know, quite a learning experience. And then about like, five ish in the morning, we started coming back home, everyone was asleep. And, and I was just thinking about, wow, how is all these photos are going to look on my laptop, I want to see them. And, of course, then we came home. And after that actually, the real struggle started. I took all these photos, I had no idea how to do a panel. Okay. But I actually had done a webinar with Daniel Colton once. So he mentioned something about particularly, no, I remember I remember that. So I was like, Yeah, I remember that was something regarding the panel, you know, you can do panels in that. So I got that software. And then I searched about how to do stalking and all those stuff. And yeah, that was quite an experience. Like, you see those images, a Milky Way arch and you think okay, well, what is in there, but no, oh my God, all that thing that experiences that, you know, the research and an after you take the images or the post processing is like a journey in itself. So yeah, I enjoy it though the astral shot. And after that also, we went to take the meteor shower pursued meteor shower shots in Germany. And they're also we had some struggle with our new star tracker, you know, the day one, we couldn't do the polar alignment. It didn't happen. And it was night it was windy, we were actually not prepared. And like after one or two, if you're not prepared and windy night, you can't just you know, stand there and do something. So we came back. And the next day, we went fully prepared. We took all the shots. And even if the forecast was, you know, it's going to be cloudy. But before the clouds we actually saw 50 meteors and took the Milky Way. And with with the meteors, so it was like it was I had never imagined it. So yeah, everything you know, in life is a first if your dries up. Yeah, I enjoyed that. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  43:18  That's cool. That is really cool. You know, like this during that journey is crazy. I think, you know, one thing that I could find inspiration from is how never scared to ask for help. Right? And you see how how fast you can learn and progress in your journey by reaching out to other people who have done it before, right? I mean, whether you buy a course or go on a webinar or just asking a question. Yeah, that's really cool that you know that, to hear that journey of you reaching out and, you know, having this photographer, local photographer who don't know you at all, but you know, also, like, let you borrow all this stuff. And that's, that's, I think that's one of the coolest thing about travel and photography is next. Right? And, yeah, so I saw some of your, you know, Astro photo, and it's just, they are incredible, you know, especially for someone who just started when I first saw it and was like, Why? Why did you ask me this question, you know, how it's like, it's crazy, but it shows how much artwork you put in there and, you know, just make such a big progress because you're committed to make that happen. So massive kudos to a massive alteration in that happen. So when you think about you know, a travel or a trip or a photo that you ever take there any particular moment or any particular photo that you're either most proud of or you love the most out of that moment and tell us why Supriya Samal From Meanderquest  45:01  Sorry, I didn't hear the last part of the question. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  45:04  Basically, like, you know, like, out of your travel and the photo that you have taken us your favourite moments or your favourite photo that you have captured, and just tell us why it is so important and why you love them so much. Supriya Samal From Meanderquest  45:21  Okay, so it's, it's very difficult to choose, you know, your favourite photos. But yeah, on in terms of like trip or journeys I had to take. So I'd say the first on my list is obviously, obviously, the Milky Way arch, which I took, because, like, six months, went into that just to make it happen. So all those research and everything. And that was my favourite, and because I also faced my fear of darkness, like, that's my major fear. And in a heartbeat, I would like to, you know, go back and live that moment, over and over again, it was such a beautiful night, like, I saw the stars, the Milky Way, I think after 15 or 16 years in my life, I saw the Milky Way for the first time. So it was like, in an experience in itself, I couldn't forget that. And if I have to choose second one, it would be this tribal portrait, which I did recently in India. So for that, that trip is also kind of an experience in itself, because we did all kinds of, you know, preparation I learned about because I had never taken portrait before that. Okay, yes, I had done some gigs. But it was something you know, when you do for your clients, they need some particular stuff. And you know about that, of course, I understand the lighting and everything. But like, when it comes to your personal project, something you want to do, you are fearful the most like that goes into me like I feel like okay, how I'm going to do this. So I had read about that stuff like okay, how this portrait stuff is, no thing happens. I saw the images, Steve McCurry have taken and all those things. And I was like, Okay, let's do that. I had no expectations from that. So for that to be actually went to a village in northeast India, northeastern India, and we didn't know that there was a cyclone, no warning for that region. Because normally when I take landscape photos, I checked the weather I check for astrophotos shots, I check the weather, but for portrait, like, Okay, why I would need to check the weather. So we went on that trip, and that part of the Himalayas mountain, it's actually the land is very, you know, muddy. And it's very, like landslides happen all the time in that region. And when we started our journey, there was no rain like and halfway through, it started raining massively, like as we, you know, started climbing up the mountain, it started raining heavily. And by the time like, I remember, it was turning dark, and we couldn't even see what is up there. You know, a little bit ahead, it was so cloudy. And around sexuals or 630 it was completely dark. And we were stuck in a road which is only mud like our car was literally floating over it you know? And the driver said we can't make it we can't go no go further. And I was like how we are supposed to be in this place. It's raining it's muddy. And it's nowhere like there was no house there was nothing there were only trees and and and the house guest where we were supposed to reach he was calling us and he was asking like where are you guys have you reached or not? And we were telling him okay, we are in the forest. We are in this road we don't know. And he was asking Is there anyone going is there any truck going? No one is working and like who is mad enough to go that weather and then like we told our driver Okay then let's return back and you know, go to the nearest village but we didn't imagine like returning also that road is also you know that muddy and everything. So that is also going to take time. So to go downhill also it took us you know another half and out. And then when we were supposed to go and look for a place to remain for that night, then our driver said, no, no, you guys have come from so far, we should go, we should try again. That was like, why we will get the half an hour to coming back here, you know, then I was like, Okay, let's go. And actually, Sam and I, we were both quite angry, open that travel agent, because we had told him, like, we want a four by four car because this route is not good. That is what we have heard, like back from the blogs and everything. And he didn't provide us a four by four card. So it was it was an adventure, like we ditch the place around 10 Like, no 11pm around 11pm Finish the place. And that too, after like people came, I Sam and I also have to get down from the car, we had to push the car, and the event and you know, we had to walk through the forest. And you know, the driver was more afraid than us know. And we like Sam and I, we will guide in him, okay, 10 take turn, like we went to Google Map for him that night. And we're like, take left take right. And then we'll reach the place. And after that those are tribes whose photos we went to take. And it is like the last generation remaining. And they are in their 80s and 90s. And, you know, when people in 80s and 90s, like many people, many travel photographers also come to take their photos, and they don't speak your language, they have a different language. So we took a guide with us who can you know, who is from them, and who can translate what we want to convey with them. So first he took us to an old lady, she is in her I think in 85 or something 8586. And then he told her, like, you know why we had come and you know, we want to take the photos and everything. So I just sat there in the house, she offered her, she offered us the local wine, you know, they do from the rice and everything. So she offered us that. And she was sitting by the fire, you know, wouldn't fire and there was the house was you know, not in a good shape, because she is the only surviving member of the family. And you know, she had to do all those stuff. And I was sitting there and I was looking at her and thinking like, I have taken great deal of you know, all this, like 15 hours of flight and all that adventure of 12 hours. And now I'm here sitting in front for her, and I want to take the photos, but how do I approach her like, I don't know the language. And because when you know the language when you talk with someone, you create something, you know, some kind of connection with that person and then it becomes easy. So I started asking questions, because I asked her that tour guide, you know, to translate all those questions and she started telling all kinds of story, like, you know, how those, like they have some kind of, you know, tattoo face tattoos and everything done. So I started asking, I started asking about her childhood and you know, she was narrating translator was narrating beside there for one and half an hour, you know, chatting with that old lady. And then I asked her like, okay, and by that time she was smiling, and you know, even though we were not talking, but we I felt like okay, I felt that connection from her story. And then like, I asked the guy like, now can I you know, can I take her photo? Can you ask her that? Then he asked her and she said yes. And then I took photos of her, like the way I have imagined the way I wanted. And it was quite good. And, and that moment when I was taking that photo of her. And then I also know, took the Instax search so that I can give some photo to remember by and she was you know, she was so happy when I gave her that photo to smile. I won't even you know forget Stanley I will never forget and she was like a childlike happiness. And we see photo every day, you know? And then you know that was something I learned that day. Like, the things we take for granted, every simple thing, every small thing can make someone smile. I take photos every day, but I was like, Okay, these are the photos. But for her, it's something to remember by you know. So these are the two moments which is quite near and dear to my heart, and will always be Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  55:23  Wow, what a story. Thanks for sharing that Supriya. It's just incredible. Yeah, I know, I do. As you were, like, explaining that, you know, when she saw that photo, and she's smiling, I just got massive goosebumps. You know, it's, it's moments like that, that makes us really enjoy photography and photography, right? Yeah. Look, Supriya It's been great having you here. You know, we're coming to the one hour mark. And one question I always ask. So my audience is that if there is one advice that you could give your younger self or also the audience, whether it is about photography, or live or mental health, or whatever it may be? What would that one single advice Supriya Samal From Meanderquest  56:03  be? Yes. So for me, like if I have to give this to younger self or someone else that would be don't be afraid to try new things in your life. Because you never know. You never know what lies ahead of you. And when you go into that path, trying new things, you will discover things that you have never imagined you will be able to do. So. Yeah, that's the one thing I would like to say. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  56:35  So beautiful advice, Willa. Super, thank you very much for being here. You know, I enjoyed this talk. enjoy listening to your story. I know we've connected to Instagram and Twitter and clubhouse. But you know, that's why that's why I love this kind of podcast is I really get to know you personally in a much different level of level. And you know, you are able to share your story and your journey as a photographer, you know, not, like, not many people know about that, you know, six months journey capturing your Astro photography, or your journey going into this tribe, you know, being able to see one of the happiest moments of someone else's life. And that really give us perspective on how lucky we are. If we have a roof over our head, you don't have to think about what to eat tomorrow and have a phone and a camera and a laptop, you should be really thankful. And in many cases we're not instead we're looking for the things that we don't have. So I think that's such a powerful, powerful thing to to share. But for people who want to learn more about you about your photography or service as well as your NFT project, I don't we didn't get to do that today. But you know, we talked about so many fun things today. What where can they find you? Supriya Samal From Meanderquest  57:47  Yeah, they can find me on meander squares, meander quest.com. That is my website. I'm also on Twitter, LinkedIn, and Instagram. And my handle name is Manda quest. And on Twitter, they can find all my NFT is all the links that is also on my website. So yeah, if you have any questions, if you want to reach out, then please feel free to do that. I know Stanley is going to put all the links on the description. So yeah, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  58:18  fantastic. Well, we do this thank you very much for tuning in. Hopefully, you have found a lot of jam in there. You know, Supriya have really kind enough to share not only her success story, but the journey kind of personal journey behind her life and how she finds purpose, happiness and get out of that depression, you know, true photography. And I think that's something that's really powerful. You know, I've never come to a point where I had, you know, I was diagnosed with clinical depression, but I certainly know what it feels like to lose purpose and not knowing where to go and not knowing a direction or anything meaningful to life and photography have really changed my life. And that's why I want to share more of this journey with more of you, right? But if you do enjoy this conversation, don't forget to hit the subscribe button. And, you know, give us a review a comment letting us know what if you enjoy this journey so that other people can also find find us and be able to find that whole purpose and happiness and inspiration to our artists. But with that being said, thank you very much Supriya for being here. You know, it's such a pleasure to finally get to know you much deeper level and to be able to share your story because I know how powerful that story is. Supriya Samal From Meanderquest  59:42  Thank you so much, Stanley for inviting me and you know, giving me this opportunity to share my story because I also felt good about doing that and I really enjoyed our session. It was kind of something I was hoping and I loved it. I liked Like everyone else who is watching the video, please subscribe to Stanley's podcast because he is great and I love his photos and I'm sure he is going to have some many more beautiful episodes coming, so please don't miss them. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:00:16  Thank you. Thank you. All right, well wiki hunters. With that being said, Keep shooting, keep creating and I'll see you guys next week.  

Hey Wicked Hunters,   I am excited to have Grant Swinbourne be part of The Wicked Hunt - The Art of Photography Podcast.   Grant Swinbourne is a photographer from Sydney, Australia.  He produces fine art images from his travels around the world, including seascapes, landscapes and travel images.   Grant had a camera in his hands early, starting with 110mm film Instamatic cameras migrating to an SLR in 1984.  Whilst his photography remained an interest, it was one that took a back seat to his career in IT,  until he switched to digital photography in 2004.  It’s now gradually overtaken his time and is now his full-time career.   Known mostly for his beautiful seascapes & cityscapes from along the East coast of Australia, he’s also amassed a large portfolio of travel photography from many countries.  Grant has had images published in several magazines, including Viajes National Geographic, the Spanish language travel magazine for National Geographic.   In 2021 he was the driving force behind the establishment of the Aussie Artists Collective (https://twitter.com/AussieArtistCol) a collaborative team bringing together over 70 Australian artists displaying their work in two virtual galleries. Grant now runs educational workshops around the Sydney area to help beginners and intermediate photographers to improve their skills and learn new techniques for creating artistic landscapes and seascapes. If you want to learn more about Grant's work, you can find it here: https://linktr.ee/grantswinbourne    Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: • Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify   • Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography   • Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr   • Website: https://podcast.thewickedhunt.com      • Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr     For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography by Stanley Aryanto: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/  • Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/thewickedhunt/  • Photo prints: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/   Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation. It would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.  ---------------- Transcription: Grant Swinbourne  0:00  It's never too late, you know, unless you're dead. Once once you're dead, it's too late. But you know, so from my perspective, where you got to do is make sure that before you get there, get out there and do what it is that you're passionate about. Because if you're not actually doing what you're passionate about, then why you're doing it Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:18   Hey Wicked Hunters, Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast with Stanley oriental, where we talk about artists journey and how photography have given them hope, purpose and happiness. And today we have someone from downunder grant Swinburne is that did I pronounce your last name? Correct there, Grant Swinbourne  0:47  Grant. Oh, nice. Swinburne. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:48  Yeah, Glyndebourne? There you are? How are you? Man? It's good to have you here. I'm so glad. You know, I know. We connected through Twitter, Twitter space, and, you know, eventually to the NFT world. But it's good to be to have you here and to be able to talk about your artist journey and, you know, being able to share that with the rest of the world. Yeah, thanks Grant Swinbourne  1:09  for having me, Sam. It's great to sort of connected if not in person, virtually. But it's, it's really good and really excited to share a bit more about me. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:21  Yeah, it's always good, isn't it to be able to see that person. I think that's why that's why we like Twitter. And a lot of us gonna move from Instagram to Twitter, because we have that ability to start listening to people voice and have a deeper connection. But you know, being is no substitute to being able to see them in person or, you know, even through zoom, it's already helps a lot. So really is one of the things that I love about this podcast. Absolutely. All right. So you know that you are living in Sydney, Australia, and, you know, I've seen a lot of your work and a lot of your work are really have a really, what do you cater to a lot of the seascape and you know, all all the things around the Australian coats. So tell me, is that one of your biggest passion in photography, or you like to take a lot of other genres as well as just, you know, the fact that you're living on the coast in Australia? Grant Swinbourne  2:16  Yeah, I guess, you know, Australia, I mean, it's got a massive coastline. And, you know, to be honest, I mean, I've been to I've been to a few places around the world, luckily enough, but in my opinion, you know, in certain places around Australia, yeah, we're very lucky to have the kind of coastline that we do. There's a lot of beaches that, you know, you can go to some beaches along the coast and not seeing another person. That's not the case in Sydney echo. It's, it's, it's pretty crowded, particularly in summer. But for me, I guess I've always, you know, I've been I was born a couple of streets away from a beach on Botany Bay in Sydney. And so the birch and being around the sea, and around the, the estuaries around Sydney has been part of my life ever since I was born. And I guess I'm always drawn to it, I've always loved swimming, I've always loved that sort of feeling of relaxation that you get, you know, when you've gone to the beach, and whether you've sat there and what's the sunrise or whether you've, you know, gone for a swim or you've gone fishing, or you've gone diving or whatever, you know, it's a good feeling, you know, and I guess for me, that's one of the things that I tried to portray in some of my photography is that feeling of what it's like to have that relaxation even though you might be in a, in quite a crowded cities, and very busy lifestyle, and whatever, there's always these places that you can go to seek a bit of refuge and seek some relaxation. And so for me, that's, that's, I guess, one of the things that I'm trying to communicate with quite a lot of my photography that said, you know, on just as at home, you know, chasing waterfalls, or you know, out in out in a bush scene looking for, you know, mountains and whatever, recently did a trip to the UK and did quite a lot of photography around the Lake District and north Wales, you know, nowhere near the coast and very much about the mountains and so forth. So for me, they're, they're landscapes that I'm equally comfortable in and really, really happy about learning in those places. And, you know, again, it's about the conveying the feeling of being there. That's really what I'm trying to portray. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  4:39  Yeah, that's, that's the cool thing about you know, photography. I think that's one of why the reason why I love photography, the moment is that you could be in a crowded place, but like when you really do need your photography, it's like, you're in the bubble and everything, and we've done it right. That's such a cool feeling. And when you say that I just like yeah, I know exactly like, even if you're like in Bondi Beach like you could just like Sit there have your camera and and like, everything else doesn't just like nothing else matters. So that's really Yeah. So like, what what's your, you know? I love hearing that, you know, like, how can your connection with photography right and your full time live and you know how to be gender coastline really affected you a lot? How did you first fall in love with photography? Like, you know, were you always like holding a camera? Or was there a point in your life where you you just fell in love with them? Grant Swinbourne  5:34  Yeah, I guess it's always been a part of life for me my father, we he was quite a keen photographer. Never, you know, he never really did anything that you know, anyone I guess would call particularly artistic in terms of you know, he never tried to make photography a career or anything like that, you know, the, the art of photography that said, you know, he was always, you know, taking photos on family holidays, or whatever, you know, this is before I was even born. And I remember, he did a lot of stuff that he did from his time in the Navy, in the 1950s and 60s. And I used a lot of sitting there with him on slide nights, you know, so they, obviously they taking photos that ended up being transparencies of slides and loading them into a feeder and then sitting there slotting them through the the slide projector, just up on the on the wall in the lounge room. And, you know, sitting there watching, you know, some of his life portrayed, I guess, in that and you know, as a very young child, I guess that sort of struck me as something that was really cool and interesting to do. I got my sorry about that. I got my first camera when I was probably about 10. And that was a little 110 millimetre you know, happy snapper. film camera was an egg for instamatic. I think it was. And so from there, you know, obviously, growing up in the film days, there was nothing else there was no such thing as digital photography in those days. It was really a matter of, you know, just taking photos of things that I thought were interesting at the time. You know, whether that was down at the beach, or you know, just the back stairs in my grandmother's house, for example. Or the other family cat, it really didn't really didn't really matter to me much at that time. What I took photos of it was just like, Oh, that looks interesting. I'll take a photo of it, you know, and some of them were abysmally awful. Technically, because the camera itself wasn't meant to chop, the subject matter, I had no idea about composition and all those sorts of things. Anyway, fast forward, I guess, until I'd grown up a little bit. And, you know, somewhere, when was it about the mid 80s, mid 1980s, I bought my first SLR, which was a Minolta SG one. And I started to get a little bit more serious about it. And, you know, started to look at, you know, how to how to create a composition and how to how to, you know, develop my own film and that sort of thing. You know, going to high school, and, you know, there was, you know, in art, we'd be messing around mostly with black and white, because colour was expensive, you know, colour enlargers I don't think we had one at the school. You know, they weren't, they were few and far between and very expensive pieces of kit back in the back in the 70s and 80s When I went to school, and so that sort of just drove a little bit more of their creative juices for photography. Funnily enough, though, when I left school and had sort of started to go out to work and whatever work in careers started to take over, then, you know, getting married, having kids, that took even more time, you know, and I sort of started to give up some of those passions a little bit, to concentrate on those things more, you know, more fully. And again, I guess later in in life, once the kids started to get to an age where they were a little bit more self sufficient. I went out and got a digital photography and started to get to a point where I had a few point and shoots, which I did okay with that still wasn't satisfying me. So I ended up buying a Canon DSLR I think it was the 500 D originally. And so yeah, it just started to get a little bit more serious and you know, one of the things that is always fascinated me from some of my father's photography, but also, you know, some of the stuff that I've done at school was long exposure and how that gives you a different look and feel to the image rather than something that you know, it's Just to point out and shoot and get that instant moment, it was about, okay taking the time. And so I really started to develop that. And you know, see scaping really lends itself to that sort of, genre of photography, it's, it's really nice to see that flow, or that totally smooth water, as opposed to not saying that there's anything wrong with the frozen moment as the of the water, but from a aesthetically, I just, I just find it really pleasing to see that smoothing out of the movement of the water, etc. And, you know, that's, I guess what drew me back into that. And so I, I do a lot of it, because I enjoy it. I also enjoy getting up early in the morning now, not very early in the morning, but I don't mind it and enjoy seeing and being somewhere that not many people ask me, you know, I mean, even though Sydney's got, you know, five or 6 million people often go to the beach and see something that only a few 100 People might say, you know if that? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  11:03  Yeah, that's fantastic. Yeah, I think that's the thing, isn't it? Like, just because people gone there, they don't necessarily see everything. And as a photographer, we tend to observe more, because we want to look for something deeper, something that has connection with us. So you're absolutely right. I mean, here's the funny thing, I went down to my hometown, and I lived there for probably like, 12 years in my life, right? And I'm driving, we're driving in this road that I always drive, like, every single day, like you cannot not drive to that, you know. And just last month, when I was back, I was like driving like, wow, I didn't know there was a mountain, you know, like, right. And so you know, those kind of things you don't notice, until I started to do photography, and start to observe the landscape and everything around a little bit more and deeper. So it's crazy how much you take for granted. Yeah, I love hearing your story. You know, like, just how you got into photography. And it's something like it's been a long journey. How long have you been taking photography in general? Like, do you? Do you have a number? Grant Swinbourne  12:09  Yeah, not not really, I don't really count the, you know, the 10 year old photos in that though, you know, I guess some some people might, you know, and not because I'm ashamed of them or anything, because they were so bad. But I mean, they were, they were truly awful. I look at him now. And I go, you know, what was I think Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  12:31  we all have that kind of photos. Grant Swinbourne  12:32  Yeah, I guess I guess probably since 1984, taking a little bit more seriously. But that said, you know, having that hiatus with the, you know, the, the career and whatever that I had, you know, I got very absorbed in that, and I'd love doing it wouldn't wouldn't have swapped it, it's enabled me to, you know, financially secure my family and all that sort of thing. So, you know, there's, there's, there's a lot of good came out of concentrating on that not on photography now, could I've kept, you know, focusing on that a little bit more on maybe, but, you know, other things got in the way. And it just, it just got left behind. And it was an interest that it was not something that I felt passionate enough about at the time to really get into it. And so, I guess, in all seriousness, probably about 2004, was where I started to get a little bit more, you know, with digital, get get more, I guess, passionate about bringing it to the fore. And now, you know, the end of my career in terms of working I've basically finished work. Or working sorry, I finished working for somebody else in November last year. And so I decided, at that point, you know, financially we were fairly secure with, we're comfortable, we can survive without needing necessarily to make a lot of money. And so I thought, Okay, well, I'm going to make photography, the forefront and work for myself. And so I started doing workshops and started selling prints as you as you do, probably over the last couple of years have started to you know, try to build that brand a little bit. And part of that also, you know, last year with the lock downs that we had here, I couldn't travel more than five kilometres outside my local area for a period of about 165 days, I think, which basically was driving me nuts because there's no beaches within five kilometres of where I live. And so and, you know, I live in suburban Sydney, there's lots of houses, telegraph poles, and I know people take photos of that, but it doesn't drive my passion it does doesn't make me really want to get out there and take those sorts of shots. You know, there's no real parks. There's one with a little brown creek that doesn't look very attractive, you know, there's usually shopping trolleys, and those sorts of things lying around the banks of the hair. You know, so there wasn't a lot to photograph, or I didn't feel it was you know, and so what I did was I decided to start a podcast, you know, similar similar to yours, you know, talking to photographers about, you know, what drives them, and what makes them passionate. So, you know, landscape photography world was born almost exactly a year ago, I think it was the 21st of July, so, only a few weeks away from where we're recording this to, you know, to start building that as, as a means of starting to build the rest of the photography brand as well. So that people, you know, know who you are you, you start to get your name associated with other photographers, etc. And you get known in the photographic industry as well, I think so, part of that, it's really just about trying to try to help build that brand and get, get my name out there and also help promote others, because to me, you know, that act of helping others helps me, you know, aside from making, you know, my name, get out there more, you know, helping others get their name out there and get their photography seen. As we were talking, before we started, you know, one of the, one of the biggest issues for any photographer is their ability to get seen, and if you're not being seen them, you know, sales are going to be much harder, you know, whether they're NF T's or prints or workshops, you know, and so it is really about that hassle of getting your brand out there and people knowing about you, and knowing about what you what you're doing. So helping others do that. Yes, it helps me but it also helps them so familiar, it's a really important thing to do. And that's why I've got involved in in a number of other projects that I've done as well. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  16:51  Yep, fantastic, made, you know, I was going to bring out the podcast, because I know you're doing a podcast as well. And I'd like to know a little bit more about it. So I'm glad that you mentioned that. And I think what you mentioned there is really powerful, you know, like, you always when you give something out to other people, it will come back and, you know, one of the biggest thing that I'm the reason why I started this podcast was just like, I have a burnout, you know, back in 2020, I think so I just want to hear people's journey and understand, like, do they go through this thing? You know, what, what do they do to get out of it and all this stuff, right? So apart from you know, like what you say, of course, you get the benefit of getting associated with the photographer's you know, getting the exposure, but the cool thing about this is like, you get to listen about other people journey and what people struggle with. And, you know, it really helps you that you realise that you're not alone. So for listeners who feel like, you know, they haven't got to where they are, you know, they want it to be that, you know, everyone have their own journey that you got to trust your own journey and follow through with your own journey. Because if we all have the same journey, then we're no different than the computer or underworld being manufactured, we are not manufacture we're human, we're unique. So I think that's, that is so powerful that you share that, thanks for sharing that. Now, I know that you, I think that's really cool that you put, you know, looking at your journey, it's been a really, really long journey to fall into, you know, finally, more into full time based on photography and trying to get that brand up there. And I'm interested to hear this, right, because I know there's gonna be a lot of people out there who say, You know what, I'm getting too old. And, you know, and at the end of my, my, my life, and I'm retired, I don't think I can restart, you know, this passion of mine and stuff like that. But you decided to let you know, the photography kind of just brewing its own and you know, create its own momentum. And I think that's really cool. But you never, ever give up on it and just keep going, keep going. Exactly. Finally, you get to like, Do it, do what you love the most. wants everything secure. So what would you what would you say to those people who feel like it's, it's too late or, you know, I'm not good enough. I'm not good with technology and all these things that come to their head that I know it's not true. Because I know a lot of people, you know, pick it up very quickly. And I teach workshops and courses as well. It's not that hard to learn, right, if they wanted to. Yeah, but what would you say to people who have that kind of mentality so that they can, you know, if they love photography, they can pursue that themselves without having that doubts? Grant Swinbourne  19:29  Yeah, I think, you know, making it a career is not necessarily for everyone, and not everyone should do it. And I'm not trying to put people off doing it because it's a tough business to get into. It's very crowded. There's a hell of a lot of people out there. And some will be better than us. Some will be worse than us photographically. And I think the key is to look at what it means to you as a photographer, if it means that you're able to, you know, create art And that's your primary driver, then pursue that and push that as hard as you can. If it's more about making money, then you know, you need to do different things necessarily, then just focus, you got to do the artistic piece as well. But then there's other things that you need to, you know, sit down and think hard about, you know, how do I, how do I sustain? And how do I diversify my income streams so that when people aren't buying prints, or, you know, attending workshops, or whatever, that you know, you've got other passive income streams coming in. So it's really, then you've got to actually have a bit of a business head on your shoulders to actually say, Okay, well, these are the things that that I need to do to actually make money out of them, probably one of the one of the hardest bits, I guess, in doing that is that need to be all things in that business, you know, you need to be not only the artist, but you know, first and foremost, you've got to be the marketer. So that you've basically got to be able to write some copy, and you've got to put together some kind of advertising, whatever that whatever that looks like, you know, these days, if you want to be on Instagram, you better be good at video editing. IT and technology is there to help you. And there are things that do make things like video editing, and so forth a lot easier. And even putting together together your marketing pieces. Yeah, there are things that can actually help you. So getting into that mindset of researching the tools that you need, building the skill sets that you need, so that you've actually got a set of skills that works in terms of being too late, it's never too late. Unless you there, once munchie dead, it's too late. But you know, so from my perspective, what you got to do is make sure that before you get there, get out there and do what it is that you're passionate about. Because if you're if you're not, if you're not actually, you know, doing what you're passionate about, then why are you doing it? And I guess, you know, for me, could I have done it earlier? Yes, probably would I've had the, the brain space and the skill set that I needed? Well, no, because I've built that up over time, you know, and it's really about getting to the right time, when you can actually do it now Should I've, you know, held onto some of that photographic passion during my other career, while there may be for me, that would have been at the detriment to other elements in the career. And so therefore, you know, I'm not sure that it would have worked for me to do it much earlier than I have. You know, it's I mean, it's really hard to say, and it's going to be an individual choice and an individual thing for everyone. And it's something that you've got to be really comfortable with, and something that you've got to make sure that you're passionate enough about to be able to see it through and have the energy that it takes to actually drive, you know, those marketing elements, and, you know, the, the business elements on top of the actual, you know, passionate pursuit of creating nice art, you know, that that in itself can be all consuming for some people, and they don't have any space for anything else. And, you know, for some people, you know, offloading some of those other things, like the marketing and so forth to other other people can help. But then that cost you money. So, unless you've got a family member that's willing to do it for you. So it's really, it's really hard to sort of give anyone advice without knowing their individual circumstance. But you know, from my perspective, it's really about making sure that you're, you've got the passion, you've got the desire to do it, and you feel that you've got the skill set. If you don't feel that way, then you're probably not ready. You know, it's, that's, that's the, the key thing, but the sooner you drive, to get those skills and get the elements lined up, that you need to line up, you just need to think about it from a planning perspective and say, okay, if I'm going to do this, these are the things that I need, you know, I need to know how to do marketing, I need to know how to do my own accounts. I need to I don't know how to do the administrative side of things, you know, if you if you're gonna make it a business, if you're not gonna make it a business, then it's, it's, they're more about, okay, well, how am I going to create good art? And that's really, okay. Well, once you've got the technical aspects of photography down, Pat, that's where the learning really starts. Because the technical aspects, you know, to me probably about, you know, 10 to 15% of learning photography, the real skill comes when you start to look at composition, quality of life and how that reacts to the landscape, you know, in talking about landscape photography, which is probably my main passion, but also, you know, equally that can work in, you know, portraits or you know, street photography. You know, portrait, at least I guess if you're in a studio situation, you can control the light. So very, very different. But if you're in the street, you know, that play of light and shadow is a key part of making your art look good, but also a key part of giving a feeling and telling a story. I think a lot, a lot of art really needs to tell that story to become to transcend from just being a nice picture to being something that you know, people feel and get a reaction from. Because if it's, if it's a nice picture, that's great, yes, you can hang that on the wall. But, you know, most people are only going to do that if they're feeling a connection with that image. And they're only going to do that if that image has some kind of, you know, I guess powerful elements in it that make you go Yeah, I feel something out of this, you know, whether it's happiness, sadness, or anger, you know? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  25:54  Fantastic, wow, that's a whole lot of advice there. So, you know, even though you said that, it's hard to give advice, I think that's a really good advice to give is to start with a passion. I remember when I had that, that burnout, that was the biggest thing was that I forgot why I started to begin, why I started in the first place, right? So man, like, I truly agree with that. And, you know, like, you, I think you're right, you know, a lot of people think, you know, I started when I was 30. And nowadays, there's a lot of photographers who's like, 14, and you know, 13, and 19, and it's gonna be a different story, it's gonna be a different passion, it's gonna be a different thing. So, you know, don't try to love what you say, you know, like, everyone's different, everyone have their own story have their own journey, I think that's absolutely, absolutely true. And being able to understand, like, you know, the lights and composition, I think that is the two biggest thing that you can learn from photography, because, like you say, even in a studio, where you can control the light, you can't control anything that you don't understand. First. Grant Swinbourne  27:03  And to me, you know, whether you whether you look at that is another technical aspect in a studio situation, or whether you're, you know, whether you see that as something creative. Doesn't matter to me, but you're quite right, if you don't understand it, you can't control it, and you can't then, you know, work it so that you're actually getting the result that you're looking for. And some of my work is, you know, potluck, you know, because you happen to be in the right place at the right time. You know, there's many times I go out for sunrise, at a beach, for example. And, you know, it's just cloud on the horizon. You know, and or, you know, just the solid, overcast, despite the fact that I've looked at a forecast that says, yes, the, you know, there could be 80%, high cloud and no low cloud, you know, you get there and that's just low cloud, and it's just, you know, what am I doing here, but then sometimes that's where you go out and you find something different to shoot you. And you don't, the key is that by the time that you've taken, if you've taken the time to go out with your camera, and then, you know, the, for me, that's one of the key things is that you can then learn, okay? Like, let's say you're at a beach and you know, it's, it's a really crappy looking sunrise, that you're not going to get that bang, and that you were hoping for, well, don't get discouraged, because you can then take shots or the way flow maybe and get something out of that. You could look at details in the rocks and do more intimate abstracts, you know, there's a whole raft of different things that you can do with that time. And it's a really around that thought process of saying, Okay, well, okay, I'm going to cut off the the disappointment that I feel from, you know, the fact that the sunrise didn't happen the way I hoped it would, and focus on you know, other things that you can do creatively and, you know, it's taking that creative mindset out into the field with you. And then bringing that home into the post production side of things as well that really, I think transcends it from just being a photographer to being a really good photographer to potentially a great photographer, and you see the great photographers, they're taking every opportunity that they've got, you know, if if the conditions are particularly in landscape, if the conditions don't work for you do something different and change, change your focus from our bed like the sunrise didn't work for me, you know, I'm now going to try something a little bit you know, alternative to that sunrise and it's really about keeping that open mind and I guess learning to live with the disappointments that are gonna come because I've had some title failures of shoots where I go out and nothing you know, I've forgotten that I you know, the last shoot that I've done, you know, might have been an astro shoots and we're in right and I've left the the lens on manual focus, and I've got it set up in bold mode. And so I get there set up and I haven't changed it from bold mode and I haven't changed the order. And the first couple of shots is like that's a mess. So, what am I doing? You know, and it's about, you know, clicking, you know, curricula. So that might that might have been a week or so ago, you know, and you've just forgotten that. That's, that's how you left your camera, you know. And so you know, it's about clicking into gear and getting your head around that and getting focused again, on what it is that you're shooting and changing your, your mindset from, you know, whatever, whatever you were planning to shoot to what it is, you're going to do now. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  30:25  Yeah, no, that's, that's, I think, that happens to the best of us. I know, it's still happened with me all the time. But I think it's just, you know, if you understand it, then you know, how to how to fix it. Right. So that's such a good advice there grant. And, you know, I want to talk about a community, you know, we we've been seeing that, in this industry, in photography, actually, in any industry, you know, especially nowadays, it's no longer about, you know, branding, and you know, having people just worship the brand, but now, it's about what you can give out to the community. And when you know, what I want to hear and learn from you. And, you know, like, you already mentioned, how you build the community, one of the things that you do to build a community is through podcasts. But there's a lot of, I know that you're doing a lot of different projects to build that community. So what I want to learn, what I want you to share with the audience so that they can learn from you is that what are the different ways for you to build a community and how important it is to build the community? Grant Swinbourne  31:28  Yeah, sure. I think in terms of community, there's, there's a number of different things that you've got to look at, you know, there's this the community, I guess, that you get, with social media and the following, and so forth, and interacting with your followers, whether they're fellow photographers, or whether they're, you know, just people that like your photography, or whatever, you know, interacting. So when somebody makes a comment, I make a point, you know, whether it's on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, or whatever, I thank them on thanking them for the comment, you know, even if even if it's on, you probably should have composed that differently. You know, I accept that criticism, because, you know, in some people's eyes, what I've done isn't perfect, and that's okay. You know, and it's learning to be open to listening to to other opinions and people, that's really important. You know, particularly when, you know, they're part of your audience, and, you know, fellow photographers are part of your audience as well, because that's how people learn, you know, certainly, it's how I've learned is looking at what other people are doing. And, you know, in some cases, copying, you know, and or trying to replicate it, you know, to me, there's absolutely nothing wrong in that, yes, okay, everyone wants to create something unique, or we'd like to create something unique. But you know, if you're going to shoot the Sydney Opera House, how many unique angles are there for not many, you know, there's probably a few 100 that you could, places that you could stand to get a different angle of it. And, you know, the different lighting that you're going to get is going to depend on the time of day. So the point is, is that copying is a way of learning. And so, you know, looking at what other people are doing, helps you, and you have to recognise that other people are going to copy you. If you get any kind of notoriety out in the in the industry, you know, people are going to look at your work and go, I'd like to replicate that. How did you do that? You know, and that's, that's how you how you learn it. It's also one of the reasons why when I post a lot of the time, I will include my camera settings. So I'll put the EXIF up there, I'll tell you what camera and lens I'm using. I'll tell you, whether it's an exposure blend, or whether it's a single image, I'll tell you, you know, pretty much anything you want. And if anybody asks, and some people do, not many people do, but you know, some people ask, you know, how did you do that? And they'll tell you, if it's a composite, you know, there's no hiding, as far as I'm concerned and trying to say, Oh, this amazing image of a lighthouse on a point at night with the Milky Way behind it, you know, there's absolutely no way that you if you've got the lighthouse in front of you and the light shining, right that you can actually see the Milky Way a little and take a photo of it. Yeah, you might see a few stars, but you're not gonna get that Milky Way, you know, milk that you're going to see, you're going to have to make a composite of it to to actually make that work unless you got some amazing gear. That does something that I don't know that. So, you know, it's really about, you know, that that learning side of things is is a big part of community. Beyond that, I guess, in terms of building communities, I see that is really important and helping people promote their own work, you know, certainly has helped me both promote my work, but also it's helped me understand other people and get to know other people that I wouldn't have ordinarily come into contact with, you know, yes, you can sit there passively on social media, for example, and just look at like and whatever. And never, never engage with people to me. The word social in social media is Really the main point of it. So if you're not interacting with it in that way, you're not talking to people. You're not asking people questions, you're not commenting and saying, Yeah, well, I like this, but or I don't like that, you know? What's the point of being on social media, you know, if you're not engaging in that way, so, to me, building that community in that way, is important. And I guess this really came to the fore, probably about August, July, August, last year, I started to get into NF T's in a little way, you know, mental review items and so forth. And was trying to work out how that traction, I guess that, you know, needed to happen could happen for, you know, for me, personally, because, yes, I'd like to sell some NF T's and make some money out of it, because that was one of the things that a lot of people got into, but then recognise that, you know, to do that, you got to have actually have to communicate and the, you see comments from collectors of NF T's, you know, saying that one of the key things for them, aside from the feeling they get from the art itself, is the conversations that I have with the artists. And so getting that conversation going and getting people involved in that conversation is really, really important. And so I guess one of the things that I did a little bit of thinking, I saw some of the traction that some of the New Zealand photographers were getting in that NFT space, because they kind of the thing is they already had a community where a lot of them knew one another, a lot of them had shot together and so forth, because there are a smaller community than some other countries in the world. And I'm not saying I'm not saying that disparagingly, I'm saying that, because it's just the fact that we're smaller, they're a smaller country, smaller community, it's easier for them to get together physically, in a lot of ways, you know, than it is might be, it's really difficult for me to go and shoot with a guy in Perth, because it's a six hour flight away, you know, whereas someone in Sydney, I can ring up and we can connect and go and shoot, you know, which is great. But, you know, if you want that whole Australian experience, then you know, it's not all about Sydney, or Brisbane or Melbourne. It's, it's about the entire country. And so some of these guys getting some traction, because they were sort of supporting one another mainly in Twitter, retweeting, and so forth. And I had a bit of a think about it and thought, Okay, well, one of the ways that we could do this is we could actually create a collective of Australian artists and get them together to start promoting each other's work. Beyond that, we also saw the rise of things like on cyber, where you have these virtual galleries, you know, 3d galleries where, you know, either in VR or on just on a on a 2d screen, you can actually move around a virtual gallery space, looking at the art. And so I reached out to a number of people that I knew, but also some people that I didn't know, and asked if they'd be interested in submitting their work through a gallery. And so we did the first gallery, which was, I think, 44 pieces with 22. Artists, we then grew that to being 110 pieces in a much larger gallery, with 68 artists. And so from that developed, through the chats, a bit of discord, you know, conversation spaces and so forth, we started to build a, I guess, a photographic community within Australia, that was that self supporting and now we have, you know, a number of people joining, you know, group chats, and so forth, so that they can come into that fold and, you know, help promote one another's work, you know, so we, we talk to one another, you know, I guess it's offline a little bit, you know, it's still online, but it's, it's out of the public view, about what we're going to do, and then we go and do it. And in the public vein, it looks like there's, there's a bunch of guys or by guys and girls that, you know, sort of work together to try and promote one another's work. And so for me, a, it's really helped in not just providing work, but it's, it's helped in developing that community in that relationship with people, there's a connection there, and you know, that you can go to that person, you know, I know that there's been some, you know, technical issues that have come up with, you know, people's wallets, or on open sea or on foundation and whatever. And people have been able to help within that community to actually resolve some of those issues or give advice about how to resolve them. But there's also been some collaborations that have come out of it. And there's also been some work opportunities for one another where people who've gone out and helped on shoots or have helped with web design or help with, you know, building other projects. And so you know, that community building I think is is something that It's really important to be part of the community because we're, we're not individuals that are islands that are able to do everything ourselves. You know, some people are lucky and gifted that way, but not many of us. Certainly not. Yeah. And so by being able to lean on other people's skills and their knowledge and their backgrounds, you can actually, you know, bring your knowledge forward and bring your skill set forward. And you can learn a lot. And to me, you know, it's one of the things that I think, should be probably, you know, a mantra for everybody is never stop learning, you know, because if you stop learning, then, you know, you're not going to progress. You know, progress only comes through learning. And so it's really about educating yourself and educating other people with things that you may know, or they may know that you don't know. And it's that sharing of information that really, I find the most valuable part out of it, let alone any sales or whatever, which might come out of it. From a financial perspective. To me, the most enriching part is not the financial part, it's actually the learning. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  41:05  Wow, that is one whole lot of advice and wisdom there. Thanks a lot for sharing that grant. I think, you know, like, when I first started, especially like this, there was a time where I wanted to do like fashion photography and stuff. And there was a lot of this notion where, you know, like, we are competing against each other, and I think I'm really happy that especially in this NFT world, you know, even though I know that there are a lot of jealousy, a lot of, you know, a lot of competition and all that stuff, which, you know, I don't think we can ever get away from it, right? We're only human, but we're, we're seeing a lot more community based, where we help each other support each other. And what's really cool is that I feel like I'm, you know, that community translate translate back to, like, you know, the whole bigger community as well, you know, that's not only in the NFT. And I think it's really cool to be able to see people coming together, you know, without being scared or worried that you know, their their work, we're going to be competing against each other, but instead, just have that peace of mind and have that supportive nature to help each other. So, I always, you know, I'm very honoured to be part of the community, the Australian collective community. And, you know, it's awesome that you put everyone together to be part of that. And, like you say, it's not only, you know, we're able to help each other with the exposure, but we create, we're making friends, we genuinely creating connection with other people. I mean, that's why I have you here and get you share your wisdom. So yeah, this is I think this the really coolest thing about about photography, it's not only the photography itself, but we are, you know, the connection that you make out of that. So thanks a lot for sharing that grant. We're coming to the hour mark now. And one of the things that I always ask my, you know, my podcast guests is that if you have one advice that you can give to, to the audience, whether it's a life advice, photography, advice, or whatever it may be, what would that advice be, Grant Swinbourne  43:10  I guess, get started on what makes you, you know, happy, as quick as you can do it as early as you can. So, if you want to make a career out of photography, you know, make the decision, the key thing is making the decision. And once you've made the decision, that that's what you're going to do, then build a plan for how you're going to do it. Because very rarely do people go out and just do things, you know, building a plan, I think is absolutely vital. If you're going to try and make a living out of something, if you don't have a plan for it. And what you're going to do, if something fails, or something doesn't work the way that you'd like, you know, having that plan and having the backup plan or plan B plan C, having that plan is absolutely vital. So for me, you know, just get started, make the decision to you know, get into it, or, you know, make the decision that it's just gonna be a hobby, you know, and if it's just gonna be a hobby, and you're happy with that, stick with that, you know, but you know, make, make a decision about what it means to you as early as you can. And then don't forget that you can change your mind. And, you know, if decision AI is the wrong one, this is where Plan B and Plan C come in, you know, you can always go with decision B, you know, and say okay, well, it's not working as a business. So I'll keep it as a hobby, and I'll get on work and drive Ubers or whatever it is that you need to do to make the money to survive and keep shelter over your head and feed your family or whatever, you know that that's fine. Whatever it takes to do that. Then, you know, it's really up to you to make your path and decide how you want to how you want to fit this into your life. And if you want to make it all consuming and you want to make it your business and you want to make money out of it, then you know, warning is you might not but you know you You won't if you don't try, and if you don't start, so make that decision as early as you possibly can. And then, you know, go and do everything you possibly can to make it happen. Because if you're not doing everything you possibly can to make it happen, it'll never happen. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  45:13  Wow, that is a great advice. I wish you'd come to my life a little bit earlier in, in my life, Grant Swinbourne  45:20  I wish I'd made that decision. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  45:24  I think that it's really important to to be able to make that decision, you know, like, I know that I started this journey, because you exactly what you say I would rather you know, fail and go back to, you know, try something else rather than not knowing right? The what if, what if it does? Well, you know, what, if I, I, what if it worked out what if you know, all these things finally actually make, I can make things happen and actually do something that I really happy about? So, I think it's really powerful that you you mentioned that. And one of the things that's really cool is, you know, it's never too late. Right? Like, absolutely not. I love how you say, you can always change your mind, because that is absolutely true. You know, I take this seminar with Tony Robbins, and he's like one of the, you know, the best in mindset in life and all this stuff. And one of the things that he says, like, make decision quick and change slowly. Right. So what do you say that really hits that home? And I think in many cases, we're just too scared of you know, what could have gone wrong, but a lot of that is just in our head. So that is great advice. Great advice. Grant Swinbourne  46:31  Yeah. I remember, probably one of the one of my favourite sayings is that if you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right. Yeah, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  46:44  that's, that's very true. You know, it's all about how you believe in yourself. And your, your, your belief, I'm going to drive everything. While the grant, it's been a really nice conversation. I love getting to know you, I love getting to know your story. And I love hearing all of your wisdom. It's been amazing, you know, just hearing all of this things that, that you draw back from your experience, and hopefully, you know, we can hunters who are listening to this podcast, can draw that inspiration when they're not sure of which way to go. Because I think you're absolutely right. You don't have to do this full time. I think, you know, it takes a lot of a certain personality for people to enjoy full time. But yeah, it's like, I've never met anyone who doesn't enjoy photography, if they can do it, right. I think because Grant Swinbourne  47:32  it's not like golf, golf can frustrate the hell out of you. Yeah. To a certain degree, if you know, but I think I've applied golf, and I get a lot more satisfaction out of photography than I do at a golf. A lot more frustration out of golf than I do out of photography. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  47:52  Awesome. Yeah. So for the audience who want to learn more about you connect with you and you know, want to see more of your work, what is the best way for them to, to connect with you and, guys, I will, you know, like always, always, I will always have that link in the description. So if you need to, you know, click on it or want to go to it, it's right there. But what is the best way to connect with you? Grant Swinbourne  48:16  You can find me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube. Brands, if you're looking for grand Swinburne photography, you should be able to find me. Also, you can you can find my podcast, landscape photography world, anywhere where you get podcasts. There's also a YouTube channel where that it's the grand Swinburne photography channel on YouTube, where you can listen to episode see the teasers and so forth. So, you know, pretty much any, any social media I don't do Tik Tok though, so, because video really isn't my thing. But, you know, that's, that's, that's me. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  48:53  Fantastic. Well, thanks a lot, Grant. You know, it's been a great conversation. And thank you for being here. Grant Swinbourne  49:00  Thank you very much for having me sale. It's been an absolute pleasure. And I look forward to talking to you from the other side of the microphone on landscape photography world at some point. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  49:10  That will be interesting. I'd love I'd love to have that. But yeah, it's been a really great conversation. I really enjoyed this podcast. So thank you for it for the time that you've spirit. To Stanley. Thanks very much, Matt. All right weekend as well. Thanks a lot for listening. And I'm glad that you tuned in today. You know, Grant has been grant stories has been inspiring from when he started his photography to like taking it seriously to where he is right now. pursuing it full time. I think it's one of the coolest journey that I've heard and he said it himself you know, all you have, all you need is that to believe in yourself whether you can or no, it's really up to you. So I think that's such a really cool thing that he brought up at the end of this to wrap everything up. But if you haven't hit the subscribe button and do so so that you can hear next people and the next thing points story as well as their journey. on how to you know pursue not only photography full time but if you only want to do it as a hobby you know there's a lot of guests in my podcast that doesn't really do it full time so hit that subscribe button and I'll see you guys next week all right well until next time weekenders  

Hello Wicked Hunters,  Welcome back to another episode of the art of photography Podcast. Today I'd like to introduce to you Yulia Denisyuk. Yulia Denisyuk is an award-winning travel photographer and writer who turned to travel journalism after working as a US Navy Sailor and a Fortune 500 brand manager. Yulia's work appears in National Geographic Traveller, TIME, Conde Nast Traveler, BBC Travel, Lonely Planet, and more. For past assignments, she’s shared a roof with nomads in Mongolia, traced the origins of Iznik tiles with artisans in Turkey, and learned the art of Imigongo with artist collectives in Rwanda. Yulia is the founder of NOMⴷD + JULES, a small-group travel company with trips to the Middle East. She’s also the founder of Travel Media Lab, a platform for women and allies in travel media, where she teaches the Introduction to Travel Journalism program and runs a membership for travel photographers and writers. Yulia frequently speaks at conferences and events and teaches various travel media topics at workshops around the world. She's kind enough to give those who tune in a special offer:  Get your free guide to publishing your travel stories here: https://travelmedialab.co/start    If you want to learn more about Yulia's work, you can find it here: Link to social media: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insearchofperfect  Twitter: https://twitter.com/YuliaDenisyuk_ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Insearchofperfect  Websites: travelmedialab.co - Travel Media Lab website yulia-denisyuk.com - Yulia’s portfolio nomadandjules.co - Trips to Jordan   Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: • Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify   • Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography   • Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr   • Website: https://podcast.thewickedhunt.com      • Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr     For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography by Stanley Aryanto: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/  • Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com      • Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/   Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation. It would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.  ----------------------- Transcription: Yulia Denisyuk  0:00  If I didn't really see any other way, you know, it was just and it really started getting me into this existential crisis almost because I really made it in a traditional sense of the word I had great salary at that point. I was I was a brand manager at a big corporation in the US. But I was just so unhappy inside and so miserable. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:31  Hey, weekenders Welcome back to The Art of photography podcast, where we share our passion in photography and how photography given us purpose and happiness. And today, we have somebody who's not only a photographer, but a professional travel writer as well. Not only she has won awards on both areas, she's also been featured in many, many publications, such as national geography. She's a great artists great friend, and I can't wait to get to know her more. Hello, Yulia. How are you doing? Yulia Denisyuk  1:10  Hi, Stanley. I'm doing well. So, thank you so much for inviting me to your podcast. I'm excited to chat with you. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  1:17  Yeah, I mean, you know, we've been connected for quite some times. And I think you know, I haven't really get to know somebody until either meet them or in person or have them in my in my podcast, and you know, you are you have such an interesting and incredible stories from your travels. So I couldn't wait to hear more about it. Yeah, so you know, like, I've heard this story. From this, you're probably tired Yulia Denisyuk  1:49  of hearing over this story, because you already heard this story so much. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  1:53  Only heard you once from the from the from the space there was like, wow, I didn't know a lot about you know, more, a lot more about you. And that's why I got you to do podcast as soon as I heard that. So tell me what's sparks your interest in travel? Right. You know, in travel, first of all, and how photography and writing transpires through your life, you know, from your love of traveling? Yulia Denisyuk  2:25  Yeah, well, first of all, I'm just so glad that we're doing this because I think we both were following each other on Instagram. And then I heard you on clubhouse, and we were in the same rooms on clubhouse. And then we were in spaces on Twitter. So now we're finally on a zoom together, I just love this whole, like, legend that allows us to do this, you know, I'm sitting in Chicago, you're in Bali, and we're having a conversation, and it's pretty awesome. So thank you for that. That's really cool. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  2:55  Yeah, it's, it's been a pleasure, you know, like you say, we've been connected back and forth, but never really have that quality get to know each other. So, and I know, like, I've been following your travel as well. And, you know, I've been jealous, you know, seeing where you go. And seems like we haven't really find a place where you can meet even though we both travel a lot, but hopefully, you know, now that the COVID kind of behind us. It's going to be a lot easier to meet each other. But yeah, I'm so excited to have you here and hear your story because your story is very inspiring. And is you know, every time I hear your story, it's always fuel me up. So yeah, let let the audience know, what is that sparks that really ignite your passion? Yulia Denisyuk  3:48  Thank you. Thank you, Simon. Yeah, so I I've been obsessed with travel ever since I was little. Because I was born and Kazakhstan, Central Asia. And I grew up in Estonia, actually, which is one of the European countries now. So ever since I was a little girl, I would travel back and forth between Kazakhstan and then Estonia, on this huge train journey that will take me you know, five days all throughout the Estonia, Russia, Kazakhstan. And that's when my lot of trouble really started. I was little I was still a child, you know, and I just loved looking out the window and seeing seeing the steppes of Kazakhstan, the fields, the forests, the camels, because as you go south in Kazakhstan, you start seeing camels and stuff. And that's what I remember. And I will also remember feeling like I didn't quite belong anywhere, because when I you know, I was born in Kazakhstan, but I moved. When when when I was three, we moved to Estonia. And so I didn't quite belong to Kazakhstan. anymore. But in Estonia, I also didn't belong because I wasn't born there. I was from Kazakhstan. Yeah. And so I, from the early age, I had this feeling that I'm sort of in between, I'm not I don't belong to anywhere, but I belong everywhere kind of situation, you know, because Estonia and Kazakhstan, they were really different, even in the Soviet time, because, you know, when I was born in the Soviet Union, even in that time, Kazakhstan was very central Asian, you know, if you think of places like was Pakistan, Tajikistan, you know, even closer to Afghanistan, that kind of culture. And of course, Estonia is very European. So it's very different. And I felt this urge to know different people know, different places and cultures from a very early age. And so, you know, the Slav forester was was with me from the beginning. But when I came to the States, I was, I was 16, when I came here, and I was put on the path that many people go on, which is a very traditional path, you know, as immigrants, we have this pressure to succeed in the most traditional sense of the word, you know, get a good job, get a good education, you know, get a good salary, a house, a mortgage, a car, like all those things, you know, and that was the role that I, I followed, because that was, you know, that was laid out in front of me, but I found myself, by the time I was 30, I found myself increasingly questioning why the hell do I go to work every day. I hated it. I hated all the meetings, I hated PowerPoint, I hated everything doing. But I didn't really see any other way. You know, it was just and it really started getting me into this existential crisis, almost because I really made it in the traditional sense of the word, I had great salary at that point, I was I was a brand manager at a big corporation in the US. But I was just so unhappy inside and so miserable. So finally, in 2016, or 2015, rather, my health started falling apart, my back started having issues, I couldn't even show up at the office anymore, I couldn't even sit down at my desk at the office, that's how bad it got. And I was working at a really stressful job at that point. And, you know, everything sort of came together and this huge, sort of point of burnout and stress. And I one day, I just decided, You know what, I need to try something different, because this isn't working. And that's when I decided to try to become a travel photographer and writer because that's something I've always loved. You know, as much love for travel was developing my love for photography, and storytelling was developing to ever since I was little, I was writing stories. I had my first camera when I was 10 years old. And I was always taking pictures, you know. So that was always there. But I never saw it as a path as a real path in life to pursue. But yeah, when I was 30, I decided that, you know, now we're never try it, try it out and see what happens and, and go with it. And I did, and I'm so glad that I did. Because I've never been happier than I am right now. You know, doing what I love really having the freedom to work on the projects that I want to work on. And yeah, I mean, I'm sure we'll get into it, because it hasn't been easy. Also, it's not it's not as easy and glamorous, but it's as it sounds, and looks like on Instagram and stuff. But still, for me the it's just so much it's worth it's so much because I've never been happier than I am now. You know? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  9:00  Yeah. Wow. You know, it's it's really funny, because every time you know, I hear you talking, I just see myself, you know, you're just, I could, you know, I mean, our story is not exactly the same, but feeling the same, same way, you know, I left my engineering career for the same reason as well. So I know exactly how you feel. But was there ever a day in you know, from from that time because I just you're telling me that you're a brand manager for a big company and you have this pre comfortable lifestyle? You've made your way up there and you feel like you made it right. Feel like everything that your parents and everyone else told you that dream life? It's like it's there, right? But was there? What was that one thing that really make you what was that one thing that makes you go over the plate right? The one thing that makes you cuz you said that you're thinking about this for a while you already knew photography for a while you love writing. But what was this one thing that would make everything click and make you just run for me? Yulia Denisyuk  10:15  It was it was travel, honestly, because the thing is that when I was working, and I was back home working, I felt like zombie, I felt like I'm dead. And every time I would book a ticket, and I would go somewhere, I felt so alive, I felt so like, full of ideas full of creativity, full of energy. And the contrast was just so big, you know, every time I would book a ticket and go somewhere, I'm like, Yes, you know, I want this, I am alive, I want more of this. And every time I would come back, it always just went down, down down the hill. And, you know, it was becoming more and more extreme, really, these two lives that I was leading. And the thing is that in the US, and I don't know, in other countries that may be different. But in the US, the policy for workers is really bad, because we get two weeks vacation a year, really five, Business 10 Business days, occasionally years when we get and for somebody like me for whom trouble is such a big part of my life. That's never enough. Like, you know, this, right? It's not enough at all. So I got to the point, it got to a point that I was doing some really ridiculous things. Like, for example, I'm here in the States, and I'm looking, I'm taking Friday off, I'm taking Monday off, and I'm flying to Dubai for a weekend. You know, and just trying to satisfy that urge, somehow. And then, you know, Monday night, I'm back in the States from Dubai, you know, I'm jet lagged. And Tuesday, I show up at work. And I'm like this, you know. So it got to that point. And I was like, There's no way that you know, something has to change, because those two lifestyles were just so different. And I don't tell this story that often, but to be honest, the biggest thing that's put me on this path was actually something bad that happened to me, because in all honesty, it's really hard to quit your job and go after something like this. It's really hard. It's so scary. And if you have bills, if you have family obligations, whatever, like, how can you say no, I'm just going to drop it all and go and pursue the dream, it's really difficult, you know. So I think that's probably if this thing didn't happen to me, I would still continue being in corporate right now. And still being miserable in my job, because, again, it's really scary to do that. But what happened to me was that the brand I was working on at the time, it was struggling for many years, it wasn't doing well, the sales were declining, and you know, in corporate, they tell you that they care about you, but really, they don't care about you, they care about profits, and they need to find somebody to, to put the blame on for whatever's happening, you know, and so the company and my team, I was the person so they fired me, actually, they let me go. And at that time, I had a choice, because I was, you know, this was a really big, reputable company. And I could have called the recruiter and said, Hey, find me another job, you know, because I had good, I had a good degree from I had an MBA, I had a good experience with multiple companies. So I would have found another job really easily. But that was like this pivotal moment for me, because when they let me go, they gave me a separation package too. Which would gave me some cushion to start something something different, you know, and that was really my sign, plus my health problems, plus all the stress and everything I was going through. So that was the sign for me to say, okay, you've been given this chance, use this chance and try something new. And I'm so happy that I did. But again, like just I want to be real with you. You know, we talk about this, quit your job and pursue your dream. But really, in reality, it's so hard, like how do people actually do it? If you have bills, if you have a family to feed or whatever, you know, whatever your situation is, it's really difficult. So I want to be real with people it's not, you know, because the thing is that being a freelancer and working for yourself, it is hard, you guys, people don't want to pay attention to you at the beginning. You have to spend so much time building your brand, building your client base, like all of those things. It is it is not it is not easy. It's not easy. So you have to have some kind of a plan, right? Whether it's savings that you can live on for some time, you know, whether it's doing some part time kind of work that can get you by whatever it is, you know, let's be real. It's not just as simple as quit your job and start working on your dream, you know. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  14:57  Yeah, it's man like, you know, I, I always wanted to get fired. Yulia Denisyuk  15:04  It really is good. Right? They give you a separation back. And it's so good. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  15:08  I know, I never got that. But it's it's so funny when you say that it's like, you know, that must been quite a relief to finally, you know, have that decision because you're right. You know, I'm single person and I, at that time, I think you know, I have a house. So there is a little bit obligation there. But you know, I could have I was renting it. So it wasn't as big obligation. And even for me, finding that decision to just drop everything and start off by living off my savings is just one of the scariest thing to do, right? Because it's something that we like, for me, at least, I never have to worry about money because I that's the only thing I think about, right? It wasn't about travel about happiness, about your fulfillment in life, it's just about surviving and thriving. And, you know, that was the only thing I ever lived for. So when I have to quit my job, and stop thinking about, you know, surviving and just, you know, try to be happy and have a fulfilled life. Yeah, that's really, really scary, scary, scary moment in my life. But when you say that, I know exactly what you mean. And you know, like, like, like you say, you know, people, there are a lot of promises being thrown around in the internet saying that, yeah, you know, like, do this and you'll be happy. This, I one thing that I always say in my social media, that it's not life for everyone. But I think if you've been stuck in your, you know, day to day and mundane lifestyle, and you love changes, and you love to do on the go, why not give it a try, right? We got nothing to lose, you could always go back to your corporate life, a year after two years, 10 years, whatever it may be, there's always a chance like, you're still never gone away. I think it was three years into what I'm doing this, you know, at my lowest point, I actually got offered my engineer, work back. And I was like, it's very tempting, but I didn't take that. Because you're right. You know, this is if this is what you love for however much you however hard it is. You still going to keep going because that's what energizes you. So thanks for sharing that. Yulia. I know it's in my sometimes it's hard to share our, you know, our difficult stories. But it's good that people can see the struggle behind it. So I'm quite interesting on your origin this right. I know I'm a big advocate for people to pursue their dreams and leave their job, even though it's one of the hardest thing ever. If somebody come up to you and ask that question, right? Well, Yulia, I feel like I'm really stuck in my work. And I have this dream that I want to pursue whatever it is, whether it's photography writer, becoming a painter, whatever it is, but how would you recommend you know those people to approach it? How do you think that it's better to just pull the plug, you know, start off easy and doing it as part time? How do you think people should approach it both mentally? And also, you know, financially, especially for those people who feel like they have a lot of what they call it? A lot of responsibilities that they have in their hand? Yulia Denisyuk  18:56  Yeah, so that's a really important question. Because yeah, that's That's exactly it. Right? How do we practically do it? So I think, and this is what I always recommend to anyone I talk about on this subject is that you have to start with having a really good understanding of what it is that you're trying to accomplish, what is your vision, what are you trying to do? And that also can be easier said than done? Because sometimes people only know that, you know, I hate whatever this is, but I don't know what this next thing can be. So I will address both of these situations because, you know, you would approach them differently. But in the case that you know, you want to change and you know what you want to do? You have some idea you want to be become let's say my case, I knew I wanted to be a travel photographer that that's one sentence. I knew like I want to be a travel photographer. I want to work with National Geographic, that's what I knew. But turns out that even that is not quite enough because you don't really know how to like what What should your next step be? Because yeah, you can reach out to National Geographic. And by the way I did, and I never heard back from them. Because, you know, I had no portfolio I had no, I had nothing at that point, I was just starting out. So yeah, they didn't respond to me, which is fine, you know, I am not, I'm not mad at them. So you need to spend some time and writing out your vision in the year in three years and five years? What is it that you see yourself doing? Who do you want to work with? Where do you want to be? What kind of work do you want to do? You know, all that is really important, because it's going to give you that guidance to say, Okay, if that's where I will be in five years, what steps do I need to take now to get there in five years, and then start working on that, and start really small too, because again, like you can reach out to National Geographic right away, but they're probably just going to ignore you. Because you don't have a portfolio, you don't have anything. So you need to start at little by little. And you build that by working with some smaller names, smaller brands, maybe smaller assignments at first and grow, you know, little by little. So that's one thing. And then to the people who paid with whatever situation is happening, but they don't know how to get to, or like they don't know, they don't know, they don't have the idea of the vision for themselves. I would say, start exploring different curiosities that you have. Right, because we always talk about find your passion, love Allah. But finding a passion is a really, really big thing. And it's so much pressure also, like, don't put so much pressure on yourself, you know, start small, like, what are you curious about what sparks some interest to you right now, go pursue that, try that, you know, try many different things. And little by little, you will find some answers to what it is that you want to be doing. And for that, you don't have to quit your job, right, you can do that on the weekend, for example, or you can do that at night, perhaps or early morning, you know. So that's that. But then practically, I always recommend to people to have some sort of backup plan, don't quit cold turkey, because that's going to put so much pressure on you. And again, at first. And that's true for everything, whether you're starting a business, a company, whether you're starting as a freelancer, or as a creator, it takes in most cases takes years to build something from from zero to wherever you want it to be. So don't expect that, you know, you quit your job today. And tomorrow, you're gonna get all the clients that you need to pay your bills, because unless you already have some sort of network, some sort of base, it's not gonna happen overnight, like that. So I always say, if that's your goal, if you want to eventually move out of your current career at your current job, either start saving, or start looking for part time opportunities that will still allow you to pay the bills, let's say and do something as you're building this new thing that you're doing. That's, that's a much better way to do it, then just quit and try to figure things out and be stressful as heck. And, you know, get even more stress and burnout for you. Because that's not healthy as well. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  23:10  Yeah, that's, that's a really good point. Because, you know, when you stress out and you burn out, you're never gonna, you can't be creative and you can't create. So, you know, if your goal is to get out of this life that you hate, then you know, if you don't have that backup plan, and you have all that stress, then it's not going to help you. But one thing that you say that I really love, and, you know, I think not most of us don't say Enough of this curiosity, I think that is that is definitely the path to finding your passion because you're right, you know, it's funny, because there's so many times where people, you know, younger people kind of look up to me and ask me, it's like, Stanley, you know, you found this beautiful passion, how do you find it up? You know, I've spent 20 years trying to look for us, it's like, don't, you can't just sit and find it. You just have to try different things and see what really energize you. That's what passion means. Right? So I'm not that you mentioned that. So I am curious, Yulia, you know, you say this, this curiosity. So you know, and of course, from travel, writing and photography made sense, right. And as well as you know, you say that since you were a kid, you have a lot of exposure on this. When you decided to leave when you find that courage to leave that life behind, what how did you get started, you know, into what was the first project that get you started and that gives you the confidence that You can do this. Yulia Denisyuk  25:03  I'm laughing because my first ever paid article was for a magazine that no longer exists. And they paid me for it hours. And but it was huge for me. No, it was huge, because I was like, oh my god, somebody's willing to pay me for live photos. And my images, like that was so huge. And it was an article on Koh Yao noi, which is one of the smaller islands in in Thailand. And my path, my plan was that, you know, when I quit, you know, when that whole transition happened, you know, they let me go, they gave me the package. I did some math in terms of how long would that package last me. And I said, Okay, I need to go to some places where the cost of living is much lower than it is in the States. In the States. That package wouldn't last me very, very long. So my plan was that I will go to I went to Vietnam, I spent some time there. I went to Thailand. And very importantly, I started building my photography portfolio there. You know, I taking a lot of images a lot a lot. I still have like this huge portfolio from back then it was a six month trip. And that's how I use it. I was really taking photographs everywhere. Because before that, yeah, I was taking photos for sure. But you know, it was a bit more sporadic than that. And by the way, I know a lot of writers and photographers who do it that way who use some sort of a big trip to beef up their initial portfolio with ideas with stories with photographs that they can then start approaching, you know, on these publications when so yeah, so I was Thailand. I wasn't I was staying on Koh Yao noi, I loved the island. It's one of the lesser known islands. And yeah, I approached this publication. I don't even remember how I found them. But I approached them i I said I wanted to write a story about this island. And you know, they took it. And yeah, they paid me for hours, which is really low. I don't recommend anyone to be selling their work for that low. But you know, it was huge for me because it was my first ever paid article. And the other thing that happened that that sort of gave me this. You look for signs in the universe? Am I on the right path? Is this really happening? Like, is there a potential here for me? Should I keep going? And by the way, you should keep going, you should absolutely like not quit because the other thing is that I think people quit too soon. Because we are in such an impatient society where we just want things happen right away. And when things aren't happening right away, we just quit. You know. And, you know, if you look at any stories from actors, any any stories from creative careers, some actors who are very well known to them, and they it took them years to get discovered to have the role that which changed their lives. And all of that, you know, and it's the same for us as well. So where was I going with that? Hold on? I had I was going somewhere with that. Oh, yeah. So the other thing that happened, so the first one was that article, the 48 hour article. And the second thing that happened that as I was going through that six month trip, I was sharing on Instagram, you know, and at that point, Instagram was a much better place to be discovered than it is today, you know, and that could be a topic of another episode, because you know, talking about discoverability on Instagram, it's really hard, right? But I was on Instagram, I was sharing my my, my stories, my photographs. And I was using a hashtag of one of the magazines that I absolutely love, which is a far, far magazine, they are on Instagram to their hashtag is traveling. And I've been reading that magazine for years and years, I had a dream one day to work with them, you know, but so I was sharing my work and hashtag travel deeper. And once one day, I receive an email in my inbox saying a farm magazine reaching out for an interview. And I almost fell from my chair because I'm like, wait, what? You know, but at that point, they had a, I don't think they do it anymore. But they used to have this column where they would feature in travelers on Instagram with stories, photographers, people who are creative, you know? So they reached out to me that they had an interview with me and it felt incredible to be you know, to do that. And after that, I told them, hey, I would love to work with you guys on some stories. Would you be open to that? And they said, Yeah, sure, pitch us pitch us your ideas. And that's how I started working with a fire magazine. You know, so when that happened when my dream magazine that I've been reading for years and years before when they reached out to me, it was like, oh, okay, maybe there is something here, maybe I have some potential, maybe what I have to say, is resonating with people, you know. So that was really important for me. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  30:19  Yeah, that's awesome to hear, you know, like, I think we don't give us enough credit. I know, I don't, I'm very hard on myself. And we don't celebrate those small wins. But if you, you know, have that small wins, and you put them together, it become a big momentum. And, you know, I mean, look at you today, right? You were writing for a magazine that was no longer there. And you know, so, you know, like, you kept going and you kept going, you know, those small wins really add up? Even if it only gives you that confidence, right? No exposure, no, no money value or whatnot. But that's, that's incredible. So afar magazine was, was the very first magazine that you got into and that was the groundbreaking. believe that's, that's incredible. So when you go into this trip, and this journey, right, into trying to see whatever you're doing have potential. Was there ever a time where you have to choose between writing and photography? Because I know you love both? Was there ever a crosswalk where you go? You know what I think I need, I might need to focus on one or the other. Is that ever crossed your mind? I don't Yulia Denisyuk  31:50  know if never did because, and I know there are different schools of thoughts on this. Some people would say no, you need to do one thing and do it. Well. If you do more than one thing, you're not doing anything? Well, I don't believe about that. I'm, I am what you call a multi passionate person. Oh, no, sorry, not multi passionate. The word the term is multi potential light, multi potential, meaning I have potential in multiple areas. And the person I heard it from which by the way, you should interview, She's incredible. You maybe you know her, her name is Lola I can make. She's a huge, huge inspiration for me in this industry. She's a photographer, she's a writer, she's an educator, she's a TEDx speaker, like she has a book, she wrote a book, like She's incredible. And on my podcast, I've actually interviewed her. And I was asking her kind of a similar question like, how do you do all these things? Because, you know, you're you're excelling at all of them, actually. And so that's when that's when I heard that term, multi potential light, you know, and people are different, right? Somebody is really thriving, when they focus on one thing and do that well, and go deep in that. I thrive in doing different things. I'm an entrepreneur as well, as are you right? You were telling me about the project that you're working on right now, which is super cool. I am building a company right now, too. I am an NFT. Artist, I am a writer, I'm an educator. I speak at conferences, right? And I'm striving doing all those things. So no, it was never a choice for me that I should do one or the other. And in fact, I feel like for this for my industry, which which is travel media industry, right? I have I have an advantage because I can, I can offer both services to any client be the magazine, being a tourism board, a travel company, I can divorce I can write, I can take pictures, I'm not as good with video. And people have been telling me for years that I should start doing videos, I'm still not there. I don't know if I ever will be. But you know, writing and photography, I'm your person. And I want to say I want to comment on something you said before, which is about being hard on yourself. Man, Stanley like, I'm resonating with that so much. And up until recently, I was really bad at celebrating my wins. And acknowledging how tough how far I've come. And that has really come from the change of starting to celebrate and starting to acknowledge it has come from. I started teaching two years ago during COVID. And I teach travel photography, writing how to get into the industry. And when I was preparing for my first class, I was like, I need a framework. You know, I need some sort of a framework to apply to how I'm going to teach this class like I know what I want to teach but I want to put it into like a package and so frame worth. And so I was looking for different frameworks out there. And finally, I found one framework, which is called Dragon dreaming, Dragon dreaming. And I'm like, what is that? That sounds cool. So I started researching about it. And dragon dreaming is a framework that's used in, in operations in different like consulting circles around the world, and is based on Pacific Islander indigenous philosophy of New Zealand and Australia and you know, Aboriginal knowledge and wisdom. I'm like, Wait, why that sounds like, you know, like, how do you marry those two? That sounds very interesting. So anyhow, long story short, I started researching and the dragon dreaming framework is, has four phases. Dream, plan, do celebrate. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  35:59  Dream Yulia Denisyuk  36:00  plan, do celebrate. And that when I saw that, I was like, Oh, my God, yes. Right. Because I already believe that we need to dream first, right? Like I was saying earlier, we need the vision. Where are you trying to go? Where are you trying to be five years from now? Okay, now, the vision now you need to plan? How are you actually going to get there? You know, what are the steps you need to take, but that's not enough. After you plan, you need to actually do the things if you don't do the things, nothing happens. But even that is not enough. Because extremely powerfully, they say that celebration phase has to be as much as the other three phases. And I'm even getting goosebumps now talking about it. Because in our lives, we never give celebration that much time. Never, we may stop for a second and say, oh, yeah, great, great job. But this isn't the same like dream phase, Plan phase, do space and braid. They're equally as long which when I when I read that, I was like, oh my god, this is huge. And they were talking about why celebration for that long is so important for us. It is huge for our growth, actually, it is huge for restoring our energy. It is huge, like consoling different levels. And so when you said that, like you know being hard on yourself and not celebrating the wins. I, my whole philosophy on that shifted when I came across that because now I'm very intentional on celebrating on keeping track of my wins. Actually, I have a document. Anytime everybody's anybody says something on my podcast on social media, a client I worked with, I literally copy paste that into this document. And when I feel really bad, or something's going wrong, you know, we all have those days, right? I just opened that document and I read it and I'm mine myself. Okay, what you do matters. You're doing great, don't worry, like keep going, you know, all those things. So, yeah, sorry, I went on a tangent, but this is a topic that I'm really really passionate about as well. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  38:01  No, that's beautiful. i I'm having getting goosebumps as well. And you know, like, cuz I resonated with that. You know, I think it's, it's the culture, this fast paced culture that we always need to go for something bigger, right, that you know, if it's, if it was $40 article written by a magazine that's not there, it's it doesn't matter can I think, right, because we see people on Instagram, a posting bigger and bigger, but Yeah, and like, yeah, I totally agree. You know, I don't I only start celebrating because I took a seminar by Tony Robbins, and there was one of the things like, okay, wouldn't have thought, you know, that's the one thing that you know, they talk about, but yeah, it's really important for your mental health. But what I didn't know, though, that we meant to celebrate the same as ending and doing this this crazy, you know, it's, it reminds me to celebrate more because, yeah, that's Wow, it's just mind blowing. I think it has to do with, you know, our upbringing as well. I know for me, I live in a culture where you know, it's never good enough, right? That Asian culture is always like, you could have getting something bigger something more expensive or then you know, so that could be it as well. But he had that's a really good reminder I'm gonna look into that that's a really cool thing. Yulia Denisyuk  39:32  Yeah, so definitely look, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  39:34  you're telling me this now you know, you started you started falling into teaching during COVID after you become a successful what you call a travel and writer photographer. How did you fell into that? Was there any thing that transpires that make you that that take you into that path or was there a different things That makes you want to teach? Yulia Denisyuk  40:02  Well, I've been, I've been thinking about teaching for for a while. And you know, it really came from people always asking me the same as on Instagram. How do you work with National Geographic? That's like, number one question. Everybody wants to know that, which I understand, right? And so of course, like, if it makes sense. And so I was kind of tired. I'm just always, you know, answering the same question over and over again, because the truth is that you cannot answer do you work with National Geographic? Or how do you get published national in one sentence? Or in one DM? It's impossible? Because you're asking me to tell you the answer that took me six years to work on. And people expect that like that one quick secret or something, you know, and it just doesn't work like that, right? Like when you're building a career, and it's like this in any field, right? If you want to become a doctor, if you want to become a lawyer, you need to go through training you need to build, you need to do a lot of things. But somehow when we talk about creative careers, it's always okay. There's got to be some sort of a secret or something, you know. So I was tired of sort of always hearing that question, and always giving the same answer. And, but the thing is, I never had enough time to really dedicate to finding a framework or thinking about what I should teach her how to teach it. Yeah. So of course, when COVID happened, and all trouble stopped, we all had the time on our hands to do the things we never had time to do. And so that's when I started, I started with something small, I had a, I had a really small email class, and I still offer that email class, which is like really basic beginner level. And then I wanted to develop like a bigger, like a masterclass kind of offering that will teach you everything I know about the industry. But I'm gonna say something important, I think, which is that I didn't know how to teach. I didn't know if I was any good at teaching. So what did I do? I took a class that taught me some of these things, it taught me how to teach it. So it taught me how to structure a masterclass. And, you know, that's how I built my very first masterclass. And I will say this, because I think it's really important. We are so fortunate these days that we have so many people offering their knowledge and expertise for us in any topic or area like, right, you can go to masterclass.com, you can go to Skillshare, whatever many platforms, and people who will teach, you will share with you anything you want to learn. And I think it's important to use that because there is nothing that I teach in my class that you can't figure out on your own. But it's going to take you years probably to figure it out, right? Because again, it's my experience, it's my mistakes, it's my everything. And it took me years really there. So you can do that. If you don't want to, you know, invest into an education like that, no, by all means, do it by yourself, but just know that it's going to take your time and efforts to figure it out. Or you can sort of get a shortcut and learn from people who have done it, and who are going to teach you everything they know, I'm now in trouble. And by the way to this day, I'm still buying workshops, classes from people because I know like, Okay, I could I could spend a year trying to figure out how to become a better teacher and how to structure my class, or I can save the classroom somebody and do it faster. And in one week. I know, I know more, you know, so I'm a huge and maybe because I'm maybe I'm biased because I'm also in this industry now of teaching. And I know, I'm learning more about how it works. And I love it so much, but I'm a huge supporter of all the different educators out there because I think it's amazing that we can we get to do that now. And there's literally almost no barriers to doing that, you know, which is kind of cool. And I know teach as well. So I'd love to hear your perspective on that. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  44:11  Yeah, that's that's really interesting that you mentioned that, you know, I it's that it's just it's very interesting how that that point that you make, you know, I when I first started, you know, photography, right? I gave myself like six months to be successful. Right? Yulia Denisyuk  44:37  Meet you. Why like why What the hell meet you Oh, my God. Like, you know what, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  44:42  this guy's like, take photo posted Instagram, they become famous. So six months, I'll crush it. And, of course, didn't happen, you know, first year you know, it's like it's getting better but it's not really what I want it and you know, But I don't think up to now I've been in it for four years. I don't think I'm where I want it to be yet, right. But it's true. You look at people studying engineering, accounting, architecture, they take three years, four years of intensive schooling. And we decide that we're not going to take school, we just cannot figure it out. Because apparently, this is something that really easy to figure out. Right? And it doesn't happen, right? So I really wish that when I started in 2018, I knew all of these courses, all of these people who made the courses because it would have taken me so much less time to get where I need to be to get to where I am right now. And yeah, that, you know, these courses could be $500 $1,000. But how much opportunity that you could have? Get, you know, yeah, I having that shortcut. You know, like, I, if there is one thing that I wish I realized better, when in my life was just that, you know, like, don't be a cheapskate, and just pay for these courses. And, you know, like, I mean, you could start dipping your toes with all this, what they call it from Udemy, and stuff like that. But when you find someone who's been through it, like you write someone who have the track record, and manage to figure it out, I mean, it doesn't matter how long you try to figure it out, you know, especially to, you know, break into Nigeria and stuff like that. Yes, there is, you know, it might take you a long, long time. But also, you might never figure it out, you know, because there's, maybe it's a mindset day, maybe it's whatever it is, right? So, man, like, if you could just look at what people have done, model it. And if that doesn't work, find someone else who's done it as well, and try to model it because sometimes different different ways with the resonate with different people, right? So if you could just do that. And instead of making your own mistake, you could learn from their mistake. Good save you years, should we leave university anymore? Yeah, I'm very passionate about this live this this topic as well. But I'll digress. But thanks for sharing that. I think that is a really powerful things to see. Right? You know, I myself, still take advices from people who are better than me, I still take courses on different things. So and I think that's absolutely important. Because if you don't grow, then you're going backwards. You know, people think that once you're up there, you're just like, you know, it's a paradise. It's not you have to keep moving forward. Yeah, thanks for sharing that. Yulia. Sorry, got me fired up there a little bit. Yulia Denisyuk  48:20  I love it. I love to see. That's awesome. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  48:24  Oh, yeah, I guess, you know, one of the thing that I'm sure the audience would love to hear it, and I'm sure that you cannot say in you know, 510 minutes or whatnot. Because, you know, you cannot just package everything that you learned four years into, you know, 10 minutes. It's, it's crazy, right? You do one one hour webinar, and they expect that you can just do everything, right, it's not going to work that way. But I'm pretty sure there's going to be a topic that a lot of the audience would love to hear. If you could put, you know, even just a framework on how to how to get published or have how to get featured in NatGeo. That would Yulia Denisyuk  49:10  be of course, that's the question you asked me oh my god, no. Well, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  49:15  I wasn't I actually didn't have that in mind until you mentioned it. I was like, you know, now that you mentioned it, I'm gonna have to ask the question because otherwise they just be pointless. Yulia Denisyuk  49:30  Okay, so first of all, the the environment right now is very different from the environment. I was starting out in 2016. Because back then, if you didn't know somebody on the inside, the chances of you getting in there are very low. And here's why. Because most of these brands, most of these magazines, they didn't give any guidance. So just a random person on how to approach them, how to pitch them, how to work with them. And so me, you know, I was starting in the industry with zero, like, I had no knowledge, no connections, no nothing. It took me so long to figure it out. Because I didn't know anybody who could tell me like, even something as simple as who the hell do you contact at National Geographic, you know, right now is time to be starting in this industry. Because all that is changing so much, most of the bigger publications in the US and globally, they are putting their guidelines online. So you can very simply Google how to pitch National Geographic, how to pitch a fire magazine, how to pitch travel and leader. And you will find their very recent guidelines that they regularly update, where they're gonna lay it all out for you, I'm not even going to waste my time or waste my breath telling you how to do it, because literally, they show you which sections of the magazine they have, which stories are they're looking for, what kind of formats? What about photography? What about writing? How do you pitch them, what is a good pitch look like, they're even going to show you that they're going to tell you exact person on each section, like that person with their email address. Before I could never find email addresses. It was like a crazy game of LinkedIn, looking on LinkedIn, looking on Instagram, like trying to find something. Now, it's amazing, because a lot of these have their guidelines. And, you know, when you follow the guidelines, like 95%, of, of you being successful. I mean, of course, there are intricacies there. And by the way I teach about that, you know, because you still need to figure out how to do a pitch that fits in the publication, because not all the stories you will have fit into every publication and that's normal, you know, because different publications have different voice, different strategies, different audiences, and that's perfectly fine. But yeah, I mean, right now, you know, six years ago, my answer to you will be very different. But right now, I think I would say that the first step, know who you want to work with, again, if it's National Geographic, it go on Google, and literally google how to pitch National Geographic, and you will see their guidelines. And that's your starting point. Of course, build a portfolio to start building your start understanding your niche. What kind of work do you want to do? What do you want to be known for? Are you a wildlife photographer? Right? Are you? Are you a hotel's writer? Are you a sustainability writer? Are you a conservation photographer, like what is your niche, because they're going to want to know that and you're going to want to build your portfolio based on that, you know, but for the most part, your your step number one is to Google that guideline, read it and follow it, and you will be successful. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  53:05  You know, it's really interesting, because for the longest time, I want to get my photography, like, you know, published, right. And I was like, it's like trying to search trying to find out different things. And, you know, I come across, like, a couple of different people in my journey that really make that difference. And the biggest aha moments, was that you just have to kind of get in touch with them find who who to get in touch, and get in touch with them with some sort of pitch, of course, you know, that's going to be a whole different conversation of what kind of pitch Are you how you pitch and stuff like that, but it's as simple as that. And that, that really blew my mind. I was just like, Whoa, yeah, like, why don't I do that? Why, why don't I just email them and ask them, right? It's as simple as that. And you know, this is where I think of course, learning it from people who not only know the how, but doing you know, right in it right? I mean, you still practicing this and as you say, you you can if I were to ask you this 10 years ago, the answer would be different because the industry are changing and if you're not in the industry, then you know the theories they want no because things are changing, right? But if you can learn from someone experience like what you say this small difference can make a big difference in your life and in your progress. So yeah, I guess you know, I wanted to pitch you know, you I was in your webinar as well and you run webinars, so I was enjoying that. But I haven't yet got into the Add to Your master class perhaps one day, because I've got so many things in my on my hand right now. But yeah, if that's, you know, we can have this if that's something that you always wanted to learn, right, how to be a travel writer how to pitch and all these different intricacies because I know usually, usually I'll make it sound really easy to just kind of go find that guidance and send it out. But this can be a small little difference that make a big difference. And I think that's where you get a lot of benefit from your master class. Well, Yulia, Yulia Denisyuk  55:37  sorry. And just Can I add something to what you just said? Because when you said about, like, reaching out, you know, find the right people and reach out to them. It applies to anything in life, really. And most of the time, we have so many like, we create these barriers in our mind that say, oh, no, I am not good enough, or I shouldn't reach out, I have nothing to say. I'll give you a really short example, really quick one. I this year, one of my goals is to develop a partnership with brands where I become an ambassador of a brand or a brand sponsors me. Literally last week, I reached out to one brands, literally, like randomly because I was researching different brands in the photography world, you know, and I was looking at their ambassador program, and I'm like, Why did I never reach out to this brand? So I reached out to them last week. I had a zoom conversation with them yesterday. And so they they sent me an email, welcome to our ambassadorship program. And it was as easy as that me reaching out to them and sending them an email. And I'm like, What the hell like? Like, why was I waiting this long? I could have done this two years ago. But you know, sometimes, but now it's like this, like you said, it's this huge aha moment. I'm like, Oh, my God, who else can I reach out to? What else am I sitting on, that I couldn't be doing? And I'm not doing because I have all these thoughts, or I'm afraid or they're not gonna want to work with me or whatever. Like, most of the time reaching out is so powerful. And so I highly recommend it to everyone. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  57:09  Oh, my God, it's the same. It's the same thing as well. Like, for me, like just reaching out, I used to have such a big fear of reaching out for some reason. And I, you know, one of the biggest mental block that I have was that people will reach out to me, um, that, you know, I'm too overconfident, I suppose, right? Just like, if we put out work out there, people will reach out. But the matter of fact, is that there's so many people out there, right. You need to put yourself in there. So by Live Nation, congratulations. On emissary ship, that's cool. Yeah. So you Yulia Denisyuk  57:47  know, a lot of a lot of people have that I, myself included, and a lot of people in my membership had the same, like, I'm just gonna put my work out there, and people are gonna notice me. But the thing is, the market is really crowded. Sure, maybe there's one in 1000 chance that you will get noticed by Why leave it up to chance, be more proactive about it, right? Because then you're going to increase your chances of being noticed if you reach out to people. So Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  58:15  absolutely, you know, you gotta make your chances. That's the key word. I think, you know, that's something that also I wish I had realized a lot sooner in my journey. So thanks for sharing that. So we can run into the one hour mark, there is this one question that I really want to ask you. Before we wrap this up, is that you know, when when you started this, and you've been to a lot of different countries with different cultures, right? Look at different publication work with different brands. How, how I want to know whether or not you know, it is much difficult for you to be to do this as a female artists, because I know that, you know, I don't have the experience myself, because I'm a male. But I think one thing that I'd like to learn is like, how is that different? You know, whether or not you ever come across any difficulties? Because you are a female, or whether or not it's never a problem in your journey. Yulia Denisyuk  59:29  I love that question. Thank you. Thank you for asking that Stanley. And I think that shows great empathy on your side. So I appreciate it. Yes, yes, I've experienced some some things, but the thing is, is that most of them have been in my head, actually. And I've never experienced anything from any of the partners I worked with or any of that, but just a short story that I was on assignment in early Wanda a couple of years ago, and I was the only woman on the on the, on the trip, there was other photographers and right all guys, and I was the only girl. And there was one guy there who was just so loud in every conversation, he was promoting the heck out of himself. Because we were there with a PR agency that represented Rwanda. And they have many clients, they work with other tourism boards as well. So it's, it's good when you have a good relationship with the PR company, because then they will send you more places. So this guy was doing the heck out of that he was promoting himself, he was always inserting himself in every conversation, talking about his work, like he was all over it, you know. And me by that time, I was already very established, I work with National Geographic, you know, I had nothing to prove. But I found that I don't do any of that. Actually. I know, I don't talk about my work, I am very quiet, I don't engage as much. You know, I'm also an introvert. So maybe that's why but I, I remember thinking while you lay a look at this guy, and then I looked him up, by the way, looked at his work. And honestly, it was not that special. But here he is really like boasting and promoting the heck out of himself. And that got me thinking like Yulia look like why are you not talking about your work and yourself? You know. So that's just one example of how sometimes I think we can hold ourselves back. And I know many women who do that, we are also socialized, not to talk about ourselves, you know, really give give, give, be caregivers be shy, be quiet, you know. So it's a real challenge for many women that I know, in this industry included, you know, so yeah, I appreciate you asking that question. Because it's a very real thing. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  1:02:01  Wow, that's, that's really interesting, you know, because I can resonate with that. And this is why I really want to talk to you, because there's so many in our patterns story are just like very, you know, similar, because even though I'm not a woman of a sling, I kind of grew up in that culture as well. And, you know, like, where, like, you shouldn't, you should, like, if you just share your wins, it can be looked as if you're being arrogant, which is, that's not the definition of arrogance, right. And that's why there was a lot of a lot of time in my head where, you know, I just don't want to talk about my work, or I just don't want to, you know, put myself out there and share the wins. And I actually sometimes have to still force myself to share, like, if I have been published or something or whatever it is, because because of that mentality. So that is really interesting. And it's really good that you have shared, so that you know, if there is any female artists that are listening to this and felt like, they haven't been doing that as much that it's okay to do that. Because, you know, when, when we I think one of the biggest one of the biggest mindset for me was when I heard this, if you're if you believe in your product, and if you believe that your product can make other people better, whatever, in whatever sense, then if you don't sell yourself, then you're not, you are doing that person a disservice. Right? You're not giving that person every chance, like somebody who are worse, which, you know, maybe in your example, there are maybe good at boasting themselves, but they weren't not good enough. And then suddenly somebody buy it, and it's not giving them result, then you know, it's on you. So, wow, that's really powerful thing to share. Yulia so thanks for sharing that. My pleasure. All right. So yeah, do you actually, like teach any courses? We like, you know, for female and like to empower female as well? Because, you know, like, through your journey, is that Yulia Denisyuk  1:04:21  so? It's funny. You're the second person who asked me that very recently. I you have a workshop on impostor syndrome, and maybe I need to bring that back because that's a that's a big one big topic. I have a membership really, that's the biggest thing that I focused on. So I did two things in my platform. I have a membership, which you know, anybody can sign up for that anytime. And it's a membership for people on this path who wants to break into the industry who wants to start working? I support them in many ways. And I also have this masterclass program. The enrollment is finished right now, but the next one is in November this fall. And, you know, that's the opportunity to really learn about the industry from the ground up. But yeah, I think I might need to bring back that workshop because people people are asking me right now like, and not not so much about the industry but exactly like that mindset, imposter syndrome confidence, you know, because that's really, really important. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  1:05:26  Yeah, fantastic. I think, you know, that's, that's something that can be very helpful and powerful. And, you know, this is one of the reasons why I do this podcast is that, you know, for those of you who think you haven't made it yet, that's okay. Because, for us, we, you know, like, I've been in this for four years, and I'm not where I want to be right. I still have a long way to go. But I think you got to enjoy the journey. So, yeah. Well, Yulia, it's been a really, really good time talking to you one thing that I always ask my audience, you know, sorry, my, my guests when they come into the podcast, is that if there is one advice, I know, you've given so many advice, but if there is one most important advice that if our listener fell asleep, that you just want them to get this one thing, what would that I love that. Yulia Denisyuk  1:06:26  Don't give up. Don't give up and keep going. And if you think it's gonna take a year, it's probably going to take three years, if you've got, if you think is going to take six months, it's probably going to take three years. So just plan on that plan accordingly. Be ready to be in it for the long haul. But also know that there is light at the end of this tunnel. Today, I got off a call with an agency and they want to send me to Barcelona to Mexico to send a reefer to Malaga to this and that, and I had to like, pinch myself, I'm like, Wait, this is my life. This is my work. This is what I get to do. Now, you know, and again, it took years to get here and to be here. But I didn't give up. And I hope if you're listening right now, if there's one thing you will remember is that don't give up, keep building, you will reach a critical point at which people will start reaching out to you, people will start to want to work with you. It might take longer than you hope. But it you will get there. If you apply yourself. If you're consistent and passionate, you will get there. If you ask for help, you will get there. And then it's going to be amazing. And then it's like a snowball effect, because now more and more people are reaching out to me and I'm like, oh my god, that's amazing. You know, it didn't happen on year one, it didn't happen year two or three, even by year six. People are reaching out to me, and it's amazing. And I'm still here, I'm still in the industry, I'm still building. So that's the most important thing I can tell you. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  1:08:09  Wow, that's just so inspiring. And, you know, it's it's the simplest thing make the biggest difference. And I think that is such an important advice that I haven't heard from anyone from this podcast. So I'm so glad that you share that to never give up. Wow, I think I need to, you know, I need to those reminders as well as many times Yulia Denisyuk  1:08:32  me too, because there are days I want to give up too. I'm like, you know, some stressful days. But you know, we all need that advice from that reminder from time to time for sure. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  1:08:41  Yeah, I think you know, a lot of us forget that we're doing this not for anyone else but for us. So if it's really makes you happy, then just enjoy it and ride the wave and keep going right? What's the alternative? Going back to your nine to five with you know, giving your stress and backache right it's it's no matter All right, well, Julie, I It's been such an incredible hour, you know, chatting with you learning about your journey, learning about your mindset. I think that's really cool as well. I think one of the things that I really love is just like how you think and how you conceptualize the world. I know I wish we have more time to talk about your travel but perhaps we'll bring you back for a second part or whatnot. But for people who you know, listen to you and I'm sure they will fall in love with you. They will want to learn and get to know your course I'm pretty sure how can they get in touch with you and learn more about you know what you offer in terms of courses? Yulia Denisyuk  1:09:50  Sure. If you're on Instagram you can find me at In Search of perfect that's dedicated to my photography, writing My career. And my platform where I teach is at travel Media Lab. It's also on the website, travel media lab.com. We also have a podcast. So if you enjoy listening to podcasts, maybe check ours out. We do a lot of interviews as well. So again, in search of perfect on Instagram, and travel Media Lab on Instagram and on the website as well. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  1:10:24  Fantastic so actually, tell us a little bit about your podcast you know, for so for people who are listening and looking for, you know, some other podcasts to listen, maybe just give a little bit short description what it's about what you guys. You know, what, what you discuss in that podcast and some sort of topics, maybe? Yulia Denisyuk  1:10:44  Yeah, sure. It's exactly what I do what I teach. It's, it's helping people break into trouble media. So if you're interested in this industry, we have interviews with editors. We have a farm medium magazine editor interview, we have interviews with other writers, photographers, I do solo episodes where I share tips, like how to work with tourism boards, etc. Like, there's just a lot of information there. So yeah, if you're interested in the industry, definitely check it out. It's against trouble Media Lab and find it on any platform. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  1:11:19  Fantastic. Yeah. So um, I'll get all that link anyway on the description. So you guys don't have to worry if you'd like trying to think like, you know, is that within whatever it may be. All right. Well, Yulia, thank you very much for being part of this podcast and for taking the time and share not only your story, but also your learning as well as your wisdom in this in this life, pretty much. Well, we can hunters, thank you for listening. And hopefully you guys enjoy this podcast, this episode with Julia. She have built herself, you know, a career that she passionate and love. And like she said, it's not easy. It's not simple, but it's worth it. And for those of you who want to be able to learn how you can get your photograph or article featured in you know, places like a far nach national geography. Yulia is probably the best person I could think of, to, to learn from. So yeah, make sure you hit up, hit her up, look up the courses and see if that's the right thing for you. But with that being said, you know, thank you very much for being here. Yulia will close up the podcast. And for those of you who haven't subscribed yet, what are you guys waiting for you will get to listen to more inspiring photographers, as well as creative just like Julia. And you know, any notification coming through Week by week, every time we release a new podcast. Well, Yulia, it's been a pleasure. Thank you for being here and enjoy the rest of your day. Yulia Denisyuk  1:13:14  Thank you so much, Dan. You're an excellent hosts and great interviewer. I really enjoyed talking to you. So thank you so much for your time. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography  1:13:23  I appreciate that. All right. Well, weekenders. I'll see you guys next week.  

Hello Wicked Hunters,  Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, today we have Rachel Wood with us sharing her journey and passion.  Ever since she quit her office job and bought a camera in 2019, she has been on a world tour of exploration and discovery as a professional photographer. Some of her favourite images were captured in uncommon places: a Paleontology dig in Argentina, a solo expedition in Mongolia, and on a journey to Antarctica.   She's passionate about using her photos to advocate and raise funds for conservation and charity organizations. She also prides herself on being a patron to women in photography and BIPOC artists. Although you will typically find her taking photos in odd positions, I will oftentimes be spotted at the nearest food truck, trying to taste everything on the menu. If you want to learn more about Rachel's work, you can find it here: Link to social media: Twitter: https://twitter.com/0xWanderbitch Artverse website www.artverseproject.com Instagram: www.instagram.com/thetravelingelf Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: • Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify   • Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography   • Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr   • Website: https://podcast.thewickedhunt.com      • Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr     For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography by Stanley Aryanto: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/  • Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com      • Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/   Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation. It would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.    ----------------------- Transcription:   Rachel Wood  0:00  If I was driving in my van across the USA, I hadn't had that many sales. And I was stuck at a gas station in the middle of like Kansas or something. And I could see the gas. But I cannot even afford to fill up my tank, because I was broke. And I knew I wanted to get to my friend's place, which was in like the next state over, but I just couldn't make it there. Because I couldn't afford it. And so that's kind of like what I was like really debating on is NF T's worth it Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:45  Hey, wiki hunters, welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share photographers journey and show how photography has given us hope, purpose and happiness. And to hey, we have somebody who have given a lot to the community who have worked very hard, you know, around a project in NFV, as well as outside of NFV. And I'm just so excited to have her in, in this podcast and share not only about her successes, but also her journey and what makes her you know, the artists that she is today. Hey, Rachel, how you doing? Rachel Wood  1:23  I'm good. I'm good. Thank you so much for that great introduction. I am very happy to be here and share a little bit more about myself. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:31  Yeah, I'm excited. You know, I've been following you for quite some time now on Twitter. And I've been seeing not only your great photography, as well as your digital art, but what you've done for the community is just incredible. So I I'm just excited to have you here. But before we get started, tell us a little bit about yourself, right? What, what make you fall in love with either photography or digital art yourself? Rachel Wood  2:04  Yeah, so that's a good question. And I think many people expect my photography journey to be a lot longer than it is. But I didn't do photography. I didn't take pictures until 2019. So that's only about three years of actually taking photographs. Of course, before I would take photographs on like, your phones, or like, you know, point and shoot cameras on your travels, but I was never really for photography. Really, my love of photography sprouted from my love of travel. I am I've travelled quite a bit on my own since I was 12 years old. And I would always come back and just be like, Hey, everyone, I had this great experience. You want to see pictures of cars, it'd be like those five megapixel like camera phone like blurry out of focus, like not really able to see anything in those pictures. I'm like a, like, how can I help share the life experiences I was having with other people. So yeah, that kind of sprung from that. But with our I always loved art, like growing up, I was not in public school, I was in a Waldorf education system. And they do a lot of like experimental observation and hands on learning. really delving deep into the art. So I've done everything from metal smithing to stained glass, lamp making two weaving to painting with like acrylics or oils or every other medium. I grew up surrounded by art, and I never really wanted to be an artist growing up because I was like, Well, It's so fluffy and light, like I want to be someone people can respect and have like, you know, some sort of clout in in life be like, yeah, because my entire extended family is like lawyers and doctors, you know, all those heavy, hard stem people, and they're brilliant people. And I think growing up I always thought artists were not smart. Which is why when I went to college, I, you know, went hardcore into like, pre med, medical anthropology. I wanted to be a doctor. But after about two years of no art in my life, I realised that I was really ignoring a big part of myself. I have a brain where I need both the logical and the creative sides and I think they both go hand in hand. But um, picking science over art was a was a bad choice. For me. Personally, I still love learning about you know, medical practices. I still love reading those like papers and research and things like that, but I know for myself, I need to have that balance of creative infrastructure. And actually, that's where photography kind of comes in, you know, there's so much more to just snapping a picture. When you start learning photography, I mean, it's takes people's years, years just to learn how to use their camera. I know for me, I still don't know how to use my camera fully. But yeah, it's, it's fun. And it's creative. And it's enabled me to interact with the world in such a personable, but also comfortable place, because I'm not someone who just like inserts herself I like to observe life as it happens before me, I like to live in the moment. And photography really lets me to find a place that I can be comfortable in and partake, and essentially preserve those stories that happened around me. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  5:57  Wow, I mean, knowing you're gonna be inspiring, but you know, we just started and you're already, there's so many inspiration already in the you know, and I can relate so much. You know, growing up in Asian culture, the goal was to either be an accountant, an engineer, or a doctor. It was like the trifecta. So it's, I can totally understand where you're coming from. But it's crazy to learn that, you know, you have, you have so many different art. You have tried so many different parts of art, as you were growing up, and you know, trying different things. So it sounded like photography has come a little later, but art come first. Is that is that? Is that accurate? Cool. So like, you know, what really draw you into? I mean, you cannot say that it's it's the travel, right, but you also say that you've been travelling since you were 12 years old. So why two years ago? What was that one thing that really like, you know, push you to pursue the art of photography? Rachel Wood  7:06  Yeah, that's a good question. Well, I think a lot of people grow up on like, National Geographic and like Lonely Planet, and we see those travel places. And we're like, Oh, I wish we could go there. I was like, Oh, I wish I could see that. And in my travels, I was, I was seeing a lot of those things. I've been around the world many, many times. I think I've flown over a million miles, like 10 years. But it's so hard to find your way in travel. And after college. With my travel background, I was actually a travel specialist for a really big company. Because this is recorded, I don't think I can say, but I worked with some very, very wealthy people. And that really opened my eyes to a different way of travelling because before I've always been in the Volunteer Study Abroad sector of like, I'm a kid, I swear on this. Like, shit as poor student just trying to, you know, travel. So I would take every opportunity to raise money for my trips. My parents didn't really help me, you know, fund it, like, I wasn't ever, you know, just given trips abroad. Like I had to work for it. I had to earn it. And I also had to work on the trips. But then, with my college, what post college job as a travel specialist, I was working with these budgets that were so far beyond my limited worldview, even though I had been around the world, my world view, my perspective of the world was through a smaller budget. And suddenly, this job opened my eyes to experiences I never even thought possible. And I stuck with that job for like 10 months. But I was able to pay off my college debt with it. I sold everything I like got rid of my apartment, I got rid of my beds, like everything. And then that Christmas, I asked, you know, Santa or my family for Christmas money to buy a camera. So I took my Christmas money in 2009 18 I bought my first like, big camera that I had no idea how to use. And that was a Nikon D 850 Wonderful, wonderful beast of a camera. It's an amazing camera, but it's very heavy. And I realised that when I wanted what I wanted to do was traveller, and how can I make money on the road? And I was like, I'm gonna try photography. Even though I don't know what the heck I'm doing. I have no experience, whatever. I'm going to do it. And I think a lot of people want to do the same thing they see the slight If and they're like, Oh, I wish I could do this. But I'm someone who, when I see something of like, I want to do that I have to do it, well, I will try my best. And it was great. I packed up a backpack that January, I was in Peru with a group of other remote people. And I was able to connect with a woman who was working on a food documentary, down in South America. And that was my first sort of, like, official job. And I had a lot of fun, a lot of fun, too much fun that year, just chasing every opportunity to get that experience with a camera. So, yeah, I still have a lot to learn, but I think it really shaped me to work fast, to really understand that I have milliseconds to capture something before it never happens again. And that really helps me with my, my workflow. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  11:07  That's incredible, you know, just hearing your courage to go through everything that you have gone through, and then to push through and try to, or I shouldn't say try, because you chase a dream that you kind of, you know, doubted it in the first but then you just take a chance on it and just go on a leap of faith and jump head in first and just go and do it, that is something that I find very inspiring. So I see that you have you do a lot of digital artists well, and you know, like a composite as well as you know, like, illustrative, which are incredible. You know, I think I saw you know, is that your, your foundation piece, the one that you have it like, you know, and Twinkie II was just, you know, when I first saw that it was just such a dreamy work. And you know, it was so beautiful. So how does photography and digital art kind of complement each other in your world. Rachel Wood  12:16  So, yeah, I got into photography, because I wanted to capture the world around me and share those experiences and those moments. But digital art, it's very hard to say I'm a digital artist, even though I technically AM. And that's how I kind of white the permission that NFT in the NFT space has given me the ability and kind of courage to say that I do some digital art before when I came into NFT since December of last year. So I've only been in the NFT space for about six months. And you know, coming in, I had like this whole big plan and ideal of what kind of photographer I'm going to be known as you know, it's reset. And within like a week, I was like, Well, shit, I don't know what I'm doing. I have the whole world in front of me. And why am I pigeonholing myself into this ideal of, of who I thought I wanted to be when I was coming from a very limited web to Instagram mindset. And that's why I mented not a photograph as my Genesis piece I invented this wandering Wildling composite work, lead from many different images. And I animated it and I wrote a poem to it. And to me that was that was a promise to myself that it was okay to be something other than who I am, or who I was. To me that that is such a personal piece of art. Because it came from a really dark time when I was questioning photography last, you know, in 2020 I, you know, when I was like kind of a shitstorm everywhere, and there's so much uncertainty and you know, people were telling me left or right of what I needed to do as a photographer to make it. I felt that NF T's and the NF T space gave me that sense of it's okay, Rachel, you don't have to listen to everyone and you don't have to follow in the footsteps of the great people because that's their story. Your story is different. And that's, that's me, you know, my poem with that my Genesis wondering Well, the thing is, it's about travelling, it's about having that restless soul. Which I know I'm incredibly privileged in lucky to have such a life and to have had the experiences and I know people would be like, If only I had half of your experiences, I would be happy but um, you know, sometimes it's like once you have a bite, you get bitten by that Trouble park and you just can't stop. You know, it's with you forever. And I've had to work through those emotions, of why do I? Why am I so restless? Why? Why am I not happy with what I've had? And I am happy. But you know, there's always going to be a big part of me. That's going to be like, Okay, what next? Where to next? Let's go. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  15:24  Wow, that's just, you know, that was a big inspiration you drove right there, that was just incredible, you know, sharing that whole journey, what you feel, you know, I think it's, it's really hard, especially in this social media era, we see people who are succeeding. And a lot of times, you know, people would say, Well, why don't you just model their, their, what they're doing, and then you know, you should be somewhat successful if they're successful doing what they do. So we get a lot of that, or impostor syndrome, and, you know, having to kind of follow what everyone who had success in this space and try to model what they're doing, but it's just such an inspiration, how you decided to, you know, do to put a stop on there and say that, okay, well, that is one way to go about it, but you decided to go to find your own path, right? Whether or not it's, it's the right way, we never going to know until you try it. And you know, I think that is the biggest courageous to just give it a go. So you mentioned that there was so many, so many advices, so many voices coming left and right of you know, what you should do about your, you know, what you should do what you should do in the future to go about, you know, your photography, what are I'd like to know, what are some of the advices on that? And what you know, because I know that you say that, in the end, you decided to just, you know, follow your own path? What are some of those advices? And whether or not you have tried to follow that through before you find your own path to get there? Rachel Wood  17:13  Yeah, wow. Okay. That's a really good question. And I am stalling while I think about the answer. I think for me, I've always viewed the now as a perpetual launching pad. I know in the past, I've been a perfectionist where I don't want to, like do anything without it being perfect. And I think a lot of us do the same thing. Like we don't feel confident in what we're doing. So we hold back, we actually hold ourselves back by saying perfection is what we're trying to obtain. But really, we all know that saying it's not perfect is just saying it's an excuse. And there's no perfect moment for when you know, you should do something. And as creative people I know of Absolutely. It's very hard for us to do something that we don't feel that excitement to do. But I think that's where my sort of more like logical structured brain comes into play. Because I know that motivation doesn't happen every day. But when I chose to do photography as my job as my career, couple years ago, I acknowledged that I would have to work even if I didn't feel motivated, I would have to do things, even if I did not want to do them. And that's something that people forget, when you choose to do an art form as a career or business or even trying to sell your work, you're gonna have to not just do the art, you're gonna have to do a lot more to everything. Basically, we have to be little birds and jump out of our, our nest and grow wings as we fall. Because there's no other better way to learn how to do something in my opinion, like, by walking and struggling, that we we get to forge something different within us. And that's what makes it stand out. So I'm in the NFT space. Yeah, you know, every when I came in, in December and January, everyone was like, Oh, we have to sell an Pricer one of one works super high. And, you know, like you said before, like we get this impostor syndrome, and we tried to replicate these amazing people in the space before us because we admire them. We respect them, and then they're in a place that we want to be in. But what we forget is that we're taking their stories, we're taking what they've done out of context, we've taken it out of the time situation The history, the even the privilege of what those people were doing at that time. And we're trying to apply it to ourselves. And of course, ultimately that fails. Because we're, we're just repeating something that did work once might work for another person, but won't work for everyone else. So, for me, I heard what people said, I was looking at what was happening. But really what I was doing that first month was I was learning about the space, what was going on, I was learning more about the technology of what made nfts different than just selling a digital image. And I think I was one of the first people to bring back addition, the additions were done last year. And when I proposed the idea of additions to people, they're like, Hey, don't do that. No, no, no, like, that's just a race to the bottom, like, now we're going back to stock images. But what I think people forgot, when they're talking about editions was one editions is a great way to be more affordable to more people. And also, when it sells out, or even if you price it right and sell out halfway. You'd get way more money for that image faster than if you had, you know, priced at super high and waited like 810, four years for it to sell. That is not me. I am someone who likes results. And I am someone who, as I said, chose to make photography, my job, and my income, I needed sales. And I know a lot of other people need sales, sales are great. We love sales, I do not support this whole, like starving artists mentality. Because as an artist, I don't want to be starving. Sometimes I am sometimes not. But that's not the goal, the goal isn't to just starve, and Mike's great myself for my art. Like, the goal is to make my art be that ticket to financial freedom, so that I can continue making art and also do other things. And not just, you know, be a slave to marketing myself or things like that. I'm totally rambling, I totally forgot. Okay, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  22:18  all right, you just dropping a lot of inspiration, you know, I love how you would just share a lot of that hardship. And I'm pretty sure a lot of that, you know, I was not sure if you'd notice, but I was like noting the whole way through because like, I know, at some point I was feeling that, you know, and some of the I still feel the same way. So I think a lot of people are going through that same thing. And, you know, being able to, when I started this podcast was that I came across this burnout and I was just want to know, you know, what people gone through to, to be where they are. So hearing people journey, and you know, hearing that peep other people who have succeeded in this space, also come up with the struggle, it really helps me helps them right. So I'm very grateful that you are happy to open that up to us and to share and be vulnerable around that. So, you know, very much very grateful for that. So if we had to think about, you know, what was the hardest moment in in this journey that perhaps, I'm not sure if you ever had a moment where you feel like, you know what, I don't think it's worth it. I'm just gonna quit, or whatnot. But if there is a moment like that, then what what was that moment like? Rachel Wood  23:37  Wow, that's yeah. So despite all of my highlights and wins, I definitely have had moments where I wanted to just sell everything and go to an easy nine to five, boring job. Because having been art like an artist, and travelling as much as I do, it's not stable. It's not easy. Anyone who's ever tried to find a job in today knows that finding a job is really hard. And I have to essentially find a job every single day to work for every week, you know, and so, it's different and it's hard and it does Mentally take a toll on you. One of my first bigger breaks was during COVID You know, I had been travelling a lot and suddenly COVID hit so I went and bought a house in like Oregon. I did not know anyone everything was being shut down. I had no friends. And it was just really hard for me to to readdress to life in one place. And I know that sounds super privileged but it was just the way my brain had been working for the past several years was just constantly moving in and when I was stuck and not being you Well to even experience Oregon, that was hard. I felt like I was just this rainbow sheep of my family far away from it people. And yeah, it was very disconnecting. And I think that really showed me that I am an introvert. But I'm a social introvert and I do need people and human interactions in my life. But with NF T's, I think probably one of my lowest points was actually back in. March, I was driving in my van across the USA, I hadn't had that many sales. And I was stuck at a gas station in the middle of like Kansas or something. And I could see the gas, but I cannot even afford to fill up my tank, because I was broke. And I knew I wanted to get to my friend's place, which was in like the next state over, but I just couldn't make it there. Because I couldn't afford it. And so that's kind of like what I was like really debating on is NF T's worth it? Am I putting my efforts into the wrong place? Like, can I realistically, like, give so much of myself to this NFT community to selling NF T's of my art and things like that, to make it worth my while. And I think that's what a lot of people need to do is they really need to take a hard look at their situation, and know exactly what they want, what their ability is to contribute, and then understand just how much they want it. Because in my opinion, that struggle, the struggle, like some of the hardest times of my life has led to some of the best decisions of my life. Because from that hunger of that physical hunger, as well as that mental hunger of something wanting something better. It pushes people, in my opinion, to do something new. And that's kind of like you asked me a piece of advice. And for me, it's that if you want something more with your life, you have to become something more. And that is like kind of the catalyst. For most of my struggles. When I am in the gutters, when I'm like in the ninth late layer of Dante's hell, I realised I have to change. And change is painful, but it's short term. So when I change, my situation changes when like, I want something to become better, I have to become better. And that's a hard truth to hold with someone within yourself is to like be like, Okay, I'm not good enough, but not dwelling that I'm not good enough. Be like, Okay, well, I'm not where I want to be, because I'm not that person yet. So when I tell this a lot to my people, is when you're thinking about your past, when you're defining who you are right now, by your past wins. You're basically limiting yourself by who you were, instead of being like, what would Rachel do? Or like, what would this because I've accomplished this in the past while does that lead to a better future? I should be really thinking on. If I want to be this in the future. What would they tell me? And they would tell me vastly different things than if I were to my past self. And I think that's something that we can all work on. I still work on it every day to be like, Okay, this is where I want to be. What would they tell me? What would they tell me to do to get to where they are? Yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  28:53  Wow, that's a good piece of advice right there, Rachel? You know, I think there's a saying that, that says, you know, if you think it was from by Albert Einstein or something like that, but you know, if you the definition of insanity is when you try to do the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So if you don't look back on the past, and you look to it as an LED judge your future, as you said, you know, it's essentially doing exactly just that, you know, if it didn't work on the past, well, then it's time to do something different, find a different path, you know, talk to different people. No, you know, thinking about those in the past and let it define your future. So, yeah, like I totally agree with that. You know, that quote, really something that really stuck in my head and I was struggling with that as well actually quite a bit up until last year until I took like a few different like seminars and coaching and so forth. So now, talking about NFT I know we can talk about here You can tell your story here and there. But when you first find out about NFT, what really draw you into an FDA? And what makes you want to be part of this movement? Rachel Wood  30:15  Yeah, so obviously, I think like many people, I was intrigued by this ability to make money off my art. A lot of my friends were in the space in 2021. And, you know, they were having a lot of success, it seemed it was like, pretty easy. And I was just like, Oh, cool. Another way to make some money. Great. So I got in, but I realised it wasn't as easy. And that's when I started. Like I said, Before, I was starting to learn more about what is an NFT? What is the blockchain? Why Aetherium? What exactly does this kind of technology mean? And for me, I thought so excited. I'm not a technology person. I'm like someone you have to explain the something for Dummies books too, because I'm technology is not my friend. But then I got so excited learning about this and learning kind of the steps that have led to what is now NF Ts and NFT art. I was, I realised that this was something that was still happening, still growing. And if I could come in, and help shape the future of what this looks like, I want in like that, to me, it's a matter of not just learning but shaping the future, that better serves us artists that better serves us as individuals, I was like, I would regret not being a part of this movement. And that's kind of like my bigger philosophy in the space. It's not to be, you know, the highest selling photographer, I know, I'm not going to be even if I like killed myself, I pretty sure I won't be. And that's not what I want to be in the space. Like, I want it to be someone who comes in and whose voice is heard. One of the biggest things that a lot of motivating idols of my life have said was, they regret not speaking up louder. They regret not speaking up sooner. And for me, this is exactly my mentality coming into the space. Right now. I'm about building and connecting and listening and learning of what's going on of what's you know, happening and trying to find solutions, I am a results driven person. Like I need those wins, I want those wins, I want those connections in those. Those building blocks that lead to somewhere it can't just like end at a specific transaction. And for me, that is basically my driving force with art. First is after having the wins that I've had in the space, which I'm incredibly thankful for. I realised that I'm not just an artist in this space. I'm a builder, I want to be known as a builder. In this space, I want to connect people, I want to help other people. And I think when you ask any, any creative, like any photographer, really, we love to share the knowledge that we've taken years to acquire and help others. I mean, how many photographers do you know have workshops, how many of them, you know, are always open to you know, sharing what they know and helping someone learn how to take photographs, like we're educators, I mean, we intake information, and we, you know, process it, and then we have to output it somewhere. Sometimes it's in an in an image, sometimes it's in a workshop, sometimes it's in a tutorial, sometimes, you know, it's an email list and PDF forms like you know, recreate. And that sort of drive I think is why so many of us artists are here is we are in taking all of this information of what is happening in the NFT blockchain space. And then we are kind of picking it in and kind of like with the rest of my life, I have to put something out I do not settle. I do not sit. I do not, you know, hold myself back away in the way I did in the past. So, yeah, for me, it's very exciting. I am so excited about everything that's happening and what will happen. And I'm trying to incorporate all of those little bits of information and building something which is my art first community into something that will help other people right now, of course, you have to pay me to get into it. Because I don't have big financial back There's so but this is more grassroots effort of, you know, coming together as artists coming together as collectors and growing and shaping a future that will benefit us artist, you know, helping to establish this art in the metaverse because there is a lot to fts. It's not just photography, and I think a lot of us forget that. And that will become even more. So if I can start. You know, establishing art in a way that is valued in a way that helps people in a way that people can easily get into easily can support and easily connect with each other. That, to me is what this technology is facilitating, is that ability to connect and communicate and have compounding benefits for both sides. Now, I'm rambling. So Yes. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  35:57  Fantastic. Yeah, I love hearing about, you know, your journey and how, you know, the mindset behind the whole NFT as well as the it's a tool, right? I think a lot of people forget that a lot of people think that NF t is just a way to make money that you know, but it's bigger than that, like you say it's just a tool and the tool. The thing that's so exciting that I think many people forget about NFT is that it is is a technology that is still very new in this space that have so many potential on how we apply in, in real life as, as an artist, right? So, yeah, I'm so excited about what the future holds for sure. So you talked about our verse and you know, building a community, and you cannot touch base into different things of you know, what, what you've done, what, what is going in the future? But why not introduce it in a more formal way? What is art verse and what it is that you're, you know, what was the vision behind it and what you're trying to build out of it? Rachel Wood  37:09  Absolutely. So briefly, how it started was when I made my first one on one sale, when remember, when I was talking about how was at a gas station, couldn't afford gas even get to where I needed to go. I decided to drop my first image that I ever sold as a canvas prints the year before. I dropped it on foundation, and I dropped that reserve price to point one. Yeah, it was point one and everyone was like, Don't do it, Rachel, don't do it, you're basically shooting yourself in the foot. Like, you got to stay strong, you got to just you know, maintain that trust and whatever in yourself. And I was like, You know what, I cannot fucking afford, I'm sorry, I cannot afford to wait 10 months for this thing to sell. I need eith now so that I can get to where I need to go. And so, you know, I didn't just throw any image out there, I threw out one of my most beautiful images, in my opinion out there. And it meant a lot to me. And, you know, it was it was a little hard pill to swallow to think that I could sell this image only once for 200 bucks at the time. But you know, it, it ended up being amazing. And I had big wars, the community was pumping me out because it was my first sale. And it fills me with such a sense of gratitude that I had to take what ever I could do and repay back the community in some way. What can I do? Myself that would help other people find that same sense of fulfilment and happiness in sales. And the collector of the piece, Miyama Matt, he basically told me in a message, he was like, Rachel, I wasn't going to spend that much on you. But by the community showing up and hyping you and really supporting this, I went higher. I went higher than I originally thought. And it wasn't because my image was just that much better. It was because of my community. And I realised just how strong that social proof aspect of web three is to sales. I was like, wow, how can I do that? And that's what led to our first. Our first really is a community of artists and collectors where people are trying to do everything on their own. In my opinion, it's a way for artists to find their voice and to elevate their voice in this space. They don't need to speak louder. They don't need to post more. They don't need to like you know, need The best. But how can we elevate them in this space where they can be respected and acknowledged and known. And that comes from a community. So what the art first does, and this is just in the past, in the first month of it being a community is we've had one on one coaching. With artists where they learn how to talk about their art, we get to like deep dive into their social medias and how they're presenting themselves and try to find ways that they can improve their own presence within this space, because I think that's very important. We are artists, but sometimes we don't always present our best foot forward. And that's, that's just normal, that's human. We also have websites and newsletters coming out. We have, you know, a discord going, but I'm terrified of discord. So actually, a lot of the artwork first community are not the biggest fan on Discord. So I've listened to them. And we are actually in the process of making the art first app. I'm playing around with the name of it, but they will be a lot more centralised, into an app with all the benefits of the art verse. One really exciting part is we're creating the ability to have more of these onboarding sessions of were like little modules or lessons that people can actually get answers to. Because you know, on Twitter, we have a lot of spaces, lots of great knowledge, but I hear a space and then I forget it by like the next hour, no matter how amazing it is, like I forget it, I need something that I can go back to that I can, you know, read that I can, you know, listen to again, and not lose all of that really good information within the stream and noise of Twitter. And that's what they are versus it's going to be this centralised point for education and connecting people and artists and collectors, and finding answers, you know, because I think a lot of people who come into the NFT space, they're like, I just talked to my friends. But I don't know what the fuck is happening. Like, like, where do I find this information? Where do I even start? Like, there's so many different people saying different things like, I think for me, that was like, what took me the longest of finding a community in the space was just trying to find information. And so that's, that's a big part of art versus having that centralised Information Resource aspect to the app and you know, to the community. But we're also do like for collectors, if you want to, if you're a collector interested in the art first, a lot of the art first artists will be able to, or they have been offering the collectors of art first discounted prices. And I know that word is a little tricky. But essentially, it's a way that artists can get their work out in front of collectors, before the rest of the public. collectors can know what's happening with these artists that they may like and follow our new artist without the noise of like being forgotten in the Twitter feeds. Because for me battling the algorithms of social media, it sucks. We all know, it's like a whole full time job, even if art is not your career, just to be on Twitter is like a full time job to constantly promote yourself to kind of still like post things that like you know, to engage with other people. It art versus really trying to find ways and systems where they can post things we can engage. But that has compounding benefits in the future where it's like they do it once. And it will be taken forward in a way that really highlights their work. It's not just going to be lost to the ether. So the internet. So that's exciting, lots more coming to it, but can't really talk too much about it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  44:15  Well, I think you've shared enough and I think the biggest thing you know, the biggest thing that I want the audience to hear is just how I think first of all, how you show I think this is a great case study where you show people that are NFT is not only about sales, right? You utilise the technology of NFT and you build a community around it to not only generate sales but also to benefit other people to help other artists to build a community so that you know you're you're fighting the algorithm which is which everyone hates right I feel like if there is any biggest wall between us and our dreams as an artist, it's the algorithm. So anytime, people saying that we just like, Oh, hallelujah, thanks for that. Right. So, and then, you know, secondly, you, us show people that how important the community is. And I think, you know, coming from the Instagram sort of era where it's more about showing who you are and what you're doing, you know, the web 3.0 is a bit different, it's about, you know, how you can give back to each other. So, that's really good to be able to see that and to have you kind of demonstrate that. But you know, lastly, I think there are a lot of artists out there who are a great artists, a great photographer, and their photos are amazing, but their voice hasn't been heard, they're, you know, the art hasn't been seen, and you are, you know, building something where it can help them and facilitate them to get all that happening. So, wow, you know, that's just, it's so inspiring from somebody who, you know, not sure if art was the thing, don't know what they wanted, you know what she wants to do, getting stuck in a petrol station, not knowing how to get to the next to the destination, and here you are building a community, and it's been something that's quite successful in the NFT space. So massive kudos to you. Now, one thing that I got me wonder, right. You shared some of your hardship, you know, all the struggles and the things that you have to go through to be where you are today. And you also share all of this successes as well, that goes with it. Now, I know that it's not easy to kind of push through all this hardship and get to where you want to be. But what are your motivation? What is there like that one motivation that you always think of? Or you always remember, when basically, everything come and fall apart? What is that one thing that keep you going from day to day and just keep at it to pursue this dream of yours? Rachel Wood  47:21  One is food. I love food and food costs money, and I need money to buy food. That's a fun answer. That's the fun answer. What keeps me going? I think it's a it's a complicated question. Because you know, every day that my purpose and y changes, my goals change and with my goals, changing my purpose has to pivot and change. And for me, I think it's a matter of not wanting to live the same day over and over again, I don't want to wake up in like 10 years and be like, Wow, I cannot qualify my life and more than just what I can do in a week. And for me, that's just kind of my, my blessing and curse is that I cannot settle. I do not like routine. I do not like you know doing the same thing. And that might be my creative soul speaking out. Yeah. But you know, I think for me, it's a matter of the future. I live in the moment I live so fully in the moment, like I tried to practice mindfulness, of being grateful of where I'm at, of what I do have what I have of, you know, really assessing things. But then I also have my eyes set to the future. And I have a lot of hope. Like, I have a lot of hope and belief, and not just photography and not just NF T's but like, in where I want to be in life. I don't want to always be struggling. And I know everyone doesn't want to be struggling. And I know that if I want to change my situation, I need to push hard. And that's okay. Because I love working. I think people see discomfort as a bad thing they see work as a bad thing. But even as a kid, I love doing homework. I love doing what I do, even if like the task itself is not very exciting or like worth it, in my opinion. If I know it's a stepping point to where I want to go done. It's happening. So, there's this I think it's the Marines who say, when your body is ready to give up when your mind is telling you you cannot go further. You're only about 45% of the way there you have, what is it 55% more capacity to keep going. And I think that's something that I really hold strongly for myself. That's the standard. That's a life mindset that I hold to myself where I'm like, okay, when I'm ready to throw my computer against the wall, and I'm ready to like, delete the Twitter app, or, you know, stop backpacking or whatever, I have to remind myself that I'm not even halfway to my potential, I'm not even halfway to what I actually can achieve. And that pushes me, because it's like that, that saying, You have to believe in yourself, because no one else will, I think there should also be the follow up, you have to push yourself, because no one else is going to push you harder than you are going to push yourself. And if you don't push yourself, like, Yes, there'll be other people rooting you on and supporting you. But if you're just writing on the support of others, you're not going to achieve anything more than what they believe in you. And that is dangerous, as so dangerous to live your life based on what other people think of you, and what other people expect of you. And I'm not going to go into it. But due to some childhood things, I realised that I could not listen to people, even people I trusted, even people in positions of power, I did not want to give them that I have power to define who I could be. So that's where I have a lot of faith and hope and belief in myself. And that drives me forward. Even when I have rough days. Even when I have impostor syndrome days, I remind myself that I am 55% able to keep pushing, I can keep going. Because there is much more within me, even if sometimes that answer or action is unknown. I know there's so much more inside of me that I can do. So that's yeah, long story short. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  52:09  Wow. You know, I'd, I totally can relate to that thing, you know, it. And sometimes the people who are closer closest to us are the one that's, that's the most dangerous to listen to right? Now, because they not because they don't want us to be succeed. But it's, it's because of that, it's because they're, they love us. And they speak from the love, right? And they don't want us to ever suffer. But if you never suffer, then you're never going to expand and grow. So it's I think it's a big mindset that our parents perhaps because I know, like, you know, my parents, she, you know, they had to, you know, like, work a lot to be able to raise us and give us a comfortable life. And you know, just like what you say, you know, they, they sometimes they don't know where the next money gonna come from, you know, to provide and stuff like that. So I think you know, out of that, they don't want their kids to ever felt that again. Right. But yeah, like, you know, if you if you have that mindset, then you're right, like, we just gonna hit that, that limitation of what of that belief system. So it's absolutely important to just stick through with your dreams and just keep going. Yeah, that's amazing. Well, Rachel, you know, it's been a great chat. It's been so many inspiration just talking to you. And this is what I love this podcast, right? I really get to know the person behind what they the 160 characters that they put out on social media, you know, so I really appreciate this. This, you know, getting to know you through this podcast, and I'm sure our listener would too. You have mentioned, you know, usually asked this question about, you know, that one piece of advice, but you have mentioned that one piece of advice. Is there anything that you want to add in terms of the one piece of advice that you would tell your younger self, if you if you could? Rachel Wood  54:08  Well, okay, so right now, I just had my birthday. I'm 28 years old, and thank you. And my goal for this year is growth. That's my that's my word of this year. Last year, it was pivot. And that was just so that I could pivot into whatever was happening. That's how I got into NF T's. I was like, Okay, this is something I'm pivoting into, I'm gonna lean into it. But now I found a place that I feel really happy and confident and and I'm like, Okay, I'm here. How can I grow? So my last two little bits of advice as my My top sort of missions for this year is, I need to do something right. I don't need to do it right now. And that gives me the permission to take my time to not FOMO into things to, you know, really give myself the grace to do it, right. Because you know, everyone works at a different pace, I take a lot longer to do something, which is why I'm always on. And people like, Oh, you do so much. I'm like, Yeah, because I'm just constantly chipping away at this massive boulder to carve something that I want to have a thing of beauty, in my opinion, and it takes time, little knock by the chisel at a time. So doing something right does not mean doing something right now. My second piece of advice I would tell my younger self. And I've learned this recently was that I think a billionaire, I forget who it was, he said that there's going to be doors, that slam in your face all the time, you're going to have failures, like there's going to be things that just don't work out for you. But you have to keep going. That's the first piece of advice. The second follow up is that you have to show up every single day, with the same amount of energy you had in the beginning. Because, you know, it doesn't mean you have to be heavy and fun and rosy all the time. But it just means you have to give everything you do with the same enthusiasm. And that's what I tried to do, I try to go things at it in a way that even if my past decisions and actions were kind of failures, I'm still going, like, I'm not going to get downtrodden yet sometimes, you know, I feel, but most of the time I keep pushing myself to show up with the same passion and drive and you know, bubbliness as I can. And that has helped me, you know, just to keep going forward. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  57:08  That is a great, you know, couple of great advices there. And well first of all, I didn't know it's your birthday. So happy, happy birthday to you. Because that's great. So thanks a lot for you know, for everything that you've shared with us for opening up, you know, your struggles, and you know, all of these things that that people would have realised that success is not it's not, you know, a finger snap that you have to work on. And like you say you have to be consistent every single day with the same amount of energy. You know, because it's, it's, it's easy to be excited at first, but it's hard to be consistent. And it's easy to be consistent. But it's hard to be consistent with the high energy so, man like it's a tough job. Right. But I think that's it's it's it's not it's not complicated the road to success, but it is not easy. Well, Rachel, it's been really fun conversation I love I love you know, hearing all your stories, getting to know who you are, as an artist as well as as a person. And I very much appreciate, you know, your your time to set aside, you know, after your birthday party to be here with us. For people who cannot want to learn about, you know, what is our verse or who you are and some of the art that you are working on or you're planning to work on, what is the best way to get to know you and find you? Rachel Wood  58:36  Well, you can find me on Twitter, and right now my name is a little bit crass. But it's 0x Wonder bitch, and the reason why it's wonder bitch is because whenever I told people, I'm a photographer, and I travel, they always look at my Instagram. And then they're like, Oh, you you take pictures. Oh, they're so good. I'm like, Yeah, what do you think I just said, and I think the idea is that they think I'm some sort of like influencer model. And I'm like, No, four foot nine of me is not in front of the camera. I do not flow around fluffy dresses all the time, which are beautiful shots. I don't fault them, but that's not me. And so, you know, I've met several people who are like, Oh, I'm a wonder babe. I'm like, Are you really? I know. I see you laughing. But it's like I travelled to very remote places. I push myself physically to get to some of these places where it's like backpacking for days or things like that. And it's not just camping gear, it's camera gear, so it's extra heavy. And for me, my Twitter name is kind of like a little dig. Where I'm like, I am a wonder babe. I wonder all the time I travel I I love travelling and exploring the world but I'm also a bitch because it's Uh, so that you know it just something different, you know, something that I was like, this makes me feel better. But you can find me as the travelling elf, like the travelling Elf on Instagram. That's fun. I don't, I'm not nearly as active on it anymore, but um, I still sometimes post stories of what I'm doing. And if you want to learn more about the art first, the art first website is art first project.com You can also find it on under the Twitter handle art first project as well. But uh, yeah, we're minting right now, the second expansion for a membership is live right now, which is really fun to see a bunch of new people joining. And we actually have an NFT treasure hunt coming up on July No, June 30. And July 1, Art first holders are able to join and actually win NF T's for free. Some of them are like blogging Academy to Johnny melons, mint pass. Incredible, incredible successful man who's been able to make a living from his blogging, he knows his stuff. And that's, that's an incredible ability to win something like that for free. We have like cybersecurity books we have like the first sci fi book ever mentioned to the blockchain as one of the prizes that people can find we have art from a lot of the art fairs holders. And that's just a few of the things like we have a lot of fun stuff in this NFT treasure hunt that we are doing. But let's just you know, just the fun opportunity that we bring to the art first holders. There's much, much more to it than that. But you know, we're also still growing. And it's just been amazing. Just seeing how the artworks has grown. So, yeah, people can who want to come in at the super, super low price of 0.0 Aetherium can come in. But the price does raise on July 1, just because the cost of running art first is a lot. And we want to be able to continue providing benefits and perks and goodies to our holders. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:02:24  That's exciting. That is That's amazing. And I love your little back story of the Wonder bitch absolutely enjoyed that. I know. You know, I usually mute my mic when I when when you talk because sometimes it can be distracted by others is loving. So my partner's, like sleeping upstairs like it's, it's been such a pleasure, Rachel, thank you very much for being here and sharing all this and for everything you've done with, you know, to the community. You know, I I joined in your second month I missed out on the first man because I was in Nepal at that time. So when I came down, I was like, oh, okay, it's everything exciting always happen, apparently always happen when I'm away. It's really annoying. But yeah, I'm glad that I can be part of it, you know, through through the second minute. So that's how we actually connect. So yeah. All right, well, Rachel, I know your your time is limited, and you're busy with everything else that you're trying to build and make impact in this world. So we're just gonna wrap this up. And like I say, one is, you know, give you a sincere gratitude to for let you share this story of yours and bring some inspiration to those who might not dare you and who been wondering if they're on the right path. Thank you very much for being here, Rachel. Yeah, appreciate that. Rachel Wood  1:03:58  Thank you so much, Stanley, for having me on. I really appreciate just having this time to, you know, share a little bit more of who I am. I know sometimes I focus so much on others and trying to raise others. I do forget myself sometimes. So it's been nice. It's been really nice. Just to talk with you. Yeah, I'm Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:04:17  glad you you have that, you know, you feel you feel that way. You know, I think a lot of times we're so focused about content and sales that we forgot to share our story, you know, and that's, that's actually how I get inspired to follow photography is from people's story. So, you know, I think our story has a lot, a lot of impact other than our art as well as our project. So well we can this thank you very much for tuning in. And I hope you are you know, taking a lot of notes there because there's a whole bunch of wisdom and advices that you know, Rachel has dropped it was it was such a great conversation and don't forget to subscribe and Leave us a little comment below and so that you don't miss out on the next guest and the next podcast but with that being said I'll see you guys in the next week have a wicked wicked week and I'll see you later bye  

Hey Wicked Hunters, I'm excited to be talking to an Australian artist who has made good wins in NFT world. New Light Visuals is the label for all visual work by artist David Fairs. David has been a photographer, designer, animator, cinematographer, editor, sound designer and colourist for over fifteen years. Working his way up the chain to the role of Creative Director, being on sets and in studios with some of the biggest talent and crews in Australia.  David now defines his art as an important escape from the stresses and anxiety of daily life. A process akin to meditation that has resonated with many and will now be the focus of his work going forward. Supporting mental health institutions and viewers to provide as much relief from the negative energies we all experience regularly. Taking time out to produce these images is as therapeutic witnessing them as it is appreciating them for the viewer.    If you want to learn more about David's work, you can find it here: Link to social media: Website - Newlightvisual.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/newlightvisuals/  Twitter - https://twitter.com/newlightvisuals/  NFT Arts - https://www.newlightvisual.com/nft-art  Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: • Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify   • Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography   • Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr   • Website: https://podcast.thewickedhunt.com      • Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr     For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography by Stanley Aryanto: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/  • Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com      • Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/   Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation. It would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.  ----------------------- Transcription: David Fairs  0:00  So I really went 24/7 Like I was sleeping as little as I possibly could just so I could keep up. You know, when I when I get hold of something and with work, I go all in like I really do. And it's kind of to my detriment sometimes. So, in January, I burned out properly like I literally couldn't even listen to a conversation in real life Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:28  Hey, we can do is welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share artists journey, and we get to learn how they get to where they are today and find inspiration to the journey. And today we have somebody from down under. And he's very, he loves the ocean, he takes beautiful, beautiful photograph of the ocean. I know him from the NFT space, and you have a beautiful collection of that as well. So let's welcome David David, how's it going? David Fairs  1:03  Good. Thank you. How are you? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:05  Doing? Well, I see that you have a little bit of flu there. Hopefully, it's not too bad. David Fairs  1:12  No, it's got me. I've been out for a few days. But I'm glad to be here. And I'm happy to do the podcast, we'll get through it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:20  Yeah, you're working too hard, man, you need to take it easy. So, you know, thanks for being here. And I know we have a little bit of mismatch to, you know, to have this recording. So I'm glad to finally, you know, sit with you and make this happen. I've been following your journey in the NFC journey, as well as following your, your photography and your creative world. So it's been like an inspiration just to see that right. And that's why I want to talk with you. I want to chat with you about your journey. I know that more often than not, you know, we don't get to share our life story, but it's more about the photograph or the art. So I'm excited to be able to learn more from you. Um, I guess let's start with, you know, how did you find photography and what it is that makes you fall in love with it? David Fairs  2:19  That's a good question. So it kind of fell in my lap. I have always been an artist for as long as I can remember. And I got into graphic design quite late as a career. And I worked my way up to creative director role, which was a really good, proud moment. For me, I was happy to have achieved that. And then I was working in the studio with a lot of really talented photographers and cinematographers directing shoots, and I just started to get obsessed with the gear and the settings. And you know, what we saw on set, and then the final product, and it was just, it was mind blowing to me that they could shape light and, you know, create these amazing images from what looks like a fairly rudimentary set in the studio. So I just started to go down that path, and I got sucked in big time. And little did my boss know, but I was grilling my photographers every day and finding out there settings that we're using and what equipment I should start out with. And actually, I invested in my own little setup and just started exploring the world of photography and video. And it's been amazing. Yeah, I fell in love with it, as you said. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  3:33  That's amazing. And, you know, it's, it's interesting, you know, how everyone can fall in love with photography or fall into photography. So it's great to hear that. And was there a moment in time where you know, you do photography, or you go out for an adventure, and you capture a photo or whatever it is in your life that makes you you know, like, was there like a time that you can put that was the turning point or that makes you like, wow, you know, I want to do this. I want to do more of this. I want to do the rest of my life. David Fairs  4:11  Yeah, I think there was a couple actually. So the first was I it was a bit crazy. And I took a client on. And I'd never shot video or audio or anything before. And the client flew me from Sydney to Las Vegas to shoot a child Expo convention which was mentally I was also all my instincts. Were telling me Don't do it, you're going to fail, you know, it's going to be terrible. You're going to embarrass yourself and my wife just said just do it. You know, and this is a chance for you to find something else that you love and who knows where it will take you and so, so I did I flew to Vegas. I stuffed up so many shots and settings and audio and made all the terrible mistakes you can make under the sun. But the client were really happy Be and they, they invited me back two years subsequent after. So I did three years on that job actually. So that moment in time gave me the belief in myself that you just have to do it and you just have to, you know, do the best you possibly can with the equipment you have. And your knowledge and skill set will come as you build. And that's what's been, that's what's happened, I've, I've been able to over the past five years, just build up that skill set to a really high professional level now where I'm confident, and I don't have that voice saying don't do it, you're gonna fail. You know, so that was one moment. The other moment for photography was when I got a drone, and as part of my sort of video offering, or my business, and I started to shoot more photography to just work on composition, and work out sort of angles and light. And, and that was yeah, that was a moment when I when I realised that I had a really good eye for composition in life in drone photography. And it was quite a unique thing back at the time. There were a few big accounts doing it. But now there's, you know, 1000s, whereas before, it was more like 10s, and hundreds. And so I thought that that was a niche that I could really kind of accelerating excel in. Sorry. So yeah, those two moments really defined my journey in photography and video. And so Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  6:16  wow, that's really cool. You know, I think I already find inspiration in that. I think that's really cool to, to take a leap of faith like that, especially if you've never heard shot one before, like you say, or you know, like, No, not in that setting. And you flew all the way to Las Vegas. David Fairs  6:34  It was terrifying. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  6:37  That is crazy. David Fairs  6:38  So my friend that friend lent me a Canon seven D and I literally spent two days before flying out learning how to function and the menu settings. And he gave me a quick rundown on some things, but that was it was really baptism of fire. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  6:54  You know, that's, that's, that's really awesome. Because I mean, I don't know, if you do ever have this feeling, you know, when you want to post something on the website or on Instagram, you always think like, you know, it's, it's not perfect, yeah, like, I need to do this. And then you know, you edit this part of Angola. I still don't like it, it's something about it. And you keep going back and forth, back and forth, and back and forth. You know, and you ended up not posting it anyway. Right? You ever have that moment? David Fairs  7:26  Yeah, definitely. I know that feeling? Well, I have pieces that I've been sitting on for four years that I'm still not happy with. And then some days, you know, you've got your own presets there that you've crafted over the years, and you just click a button and boom, the image is perfect. You know, so it's, it's funny how it works. But yeah, I know exactly what you mean. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  7:46  Yeah, that's exactly right. And you know, this, what you did in this, it basically in, in that first key was like, literally just crush all that, you know, doubts and just go you know, what, again, I fly all the way halfway around the world. You know, for those of you for the listeners who don't know where David is, he's in, you're in the East Coast, you're in Sydney or Melbourne? Yeah, just just a little bit south of Sydney will let go of Sydney. Exactly. So you know, you flew all the way around the world and just pick up the skin so that is amazing, you know, and that just goes to show that sometimes a lot of this thing a lot of doubts are only in our head, you know, it turns out that your client really loves it even though you know you say that you just screw up a lot of settings a lot of audio and stuff like that. So that's really awesome. So I do see a lot of your your photography are are mainly from drones, you know, there's a lot of beautiful photos of the coast as well as you know, the wildlife especially ocean wildlife. Is that Is that something that you draw to because I know that around Sydney there's a lot of waterfalls and stuff like that but is there a reason that makes you you know shoot because that means you follow people surfing or you know the wildlife around water David Fairs  9:21  so I'm a big fan of hikes and waterfalls and all things mountain as well. However, I tend to go off the track when I go out there and don't don't take gear or anything. I just take my family and we go and enjoy that bushwalking and just be really what mods nature so I haven't had the chance I've shot some wildflowers and a few things just to play around. But I haven't really found a passion in that side of things. I kind of tend to feel freer when I'm just out there enjoying it. That's just personally for me, I do admire waterfall shots with the long exposure and think wow, I'd love to give that a go but I haven't got there yet. Maybe one day um But I think the coast stuff. So I've always gravitated towards surfing and my dad got me into surfing when I was about five. And so it's been a part of my life, as long as I can remember, in the photography side, it was a real tug of war because I like go to shoot sunrise, and there'll be waves and I'll be like, Oh, just go surfing. So I go surfing more than I go shooting still to this day. But I really do love the fact that I can be there, go for a surf, get some waves, and then, you know, come back out launch the drone and get some shots as well. Sounds fine. But it's quite an enjoyable way to kick off the day for me for sure. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  10:41  Ah, that's an example that explains it. That's why you're, you know, you go out there take a lot of people serving so that's, that's really cool. You know, I'm, I try by just not that I try. I tried to get back to surfing the other day and I got rocked by the waves real hard. Like that's, you know, we get robbed in in crypto space, but I got robbed. And you know, coming back seeing the craters base crashing and it's just like, I felt like I almost drawn like, Okay, I still alive. But it's man certainly is a lot of fun in capturing, I'm gonna say capturing people serving from a drone is a lot of fun. And are they it's, it's a lot, it's very difficult as well to capture because, you know, like, sometimes they speed up, right, they turn and they speed up, and sometimes they came back and then slow down. So like, you kind of need to know where to go, when to stop and have that? Is it because that you know, you're a surfer yourself that you're able to understand that movement so that you could capture this photograph better? David Fairs  11:58  Yeah, I think that's definitely the case. I see. I see a lot of guys who haven't been in that sort of culture. And though they'll message me and say, you know, how do you get these shots? Like, I just can't get these guys in frame, you know, and it's about predicting where they're going to be. That's a lot of it. Because you can line up a shot. And then next thing you know, they've dropped in and they're out of frame, they're gone. So yeah, even for me as a surfer, it's really difficult. Like, I think that's what I really love about it is the challenge. You might shoot 1000 shots and get three that you're happy with. If that, you know you might get zero. So, I mean, that's with everything, right? Every genre, every subject, we all put a lot of time and effort into perfecting those shots. So that's definitely why I love it. It's a real adrenaline rush, as well been flying a drone in the sky for one while trying to think about your settings. Think about composition, you know, light direction. All those things at once. It's like a video game almost. It's yeah, it's really enjoyable. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  13:01  Yeah, no, I think you're right. You know, a lot of people kind of see, you know, all of our beautiful images and they think you know, oh yeah, all you got to do is just get a good camera and take a few hours of lesson and take a couple of shots but what they don't realise is the amount of shots that you take, you know, I mean, I think I have like about 200,000 shots or something on my life now and being good 10% of them you know that is that I'm really truly proud of but if that probably last year probably. Yeah, exactly. So it's such an important important thing to kind of talk about because a lot of people don't understand that journey and when they give that a try you know I I have taught a few students where they just given up and you're like you know what, I'm not good enough for this because my photo is just doesn't look like you're so like this other people in Instagram. It's like well, do you know how long we take us to get there? Right? So yeah, it's such an important thing to talk about. But I see that most of your shot from drone is that is there do you actually take photo from a camera as well? Or is that where you find your passion and that's where you get, you know, energised and excited about what photography drone David Fairs  14:30  but think I do shoot stills with DSLR I've got a mirrorless sorry, the Panasonic GH five I got that predominantly for video because it's a it was a very affordable based on the camera like for what it was, you know for what you pay for it. I was getting 4k 60 180 frames per second attend it. This was back in 2017 So it was a beast beast of a camera and could shoot stills that it's not the best stills camera and you know and there's a bit of noise in there with Low light so it's not perfect, but I do use it. But I'm most proud of those images through the drone in the they just, they sum up they summarise my art more than anything else you I still shoot with the camera there stills camera in the water, I've got a water housing. So I'll jump in the surf and swim out and get some shots of surfers and I'm still not at a level with that and I'm proud of yet that's still a very much a work in progress and a learning curve for me, which is fine, I enjoy that I'm still learning, you know, I think having a art form to practice and get better at is a gift you know, so I really enjoy that. But in terms of selling art, and putting it out there into the community, those images that you've seen, they're there. They're my best work they're what I love to put forward and show people what I can do that's incredible. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  15:59  You know, it's I you know, your photo is just breathtaking it it really reminds me of the beautiful cars of Australia. I believe we have the best cars in the world. Probably I'm a bit biassed is over Australia myself. But But um, so when you think photo these surfers and stuff, how low do you go? Are you Are you not afraid of can I you know, because you got an offshore wind with the waves and all that stuff is that of concern when you fly the drone close, or do you try to kind of you know, keep the distance so that you are further away from from the from the water. David Fairs  16:44  So I like to get really low like one to two metres off the surface, it just, it just provides such a great image, I've tried other angles and things like that. And they just don't work out quite as well, it kind of you lose that impact of the subject. And one of my favourite compositions is to shoot directly at this with a surfer silhouetted by the sunlight, but just be close enough that you can still get detail in the surfer. I will keep my distance with people I don't know. But if I've got people that are local break, where I serve, everyone knows me, you know that I'm a drone photographer in that space, I quite enjoy getting shots of themselves anyway, I will get quite close. And so they're fine with that. I try not to get above people too much. Because if it was to fail and fall out of the sky, then you're probably going to hurt someone quite badly. So more directly in front and get sort of within I don't know, a good a good distance that you can still see detail in the person in the subject so that they're not too noisy. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  17:52  That's a good advice, man. You know, I think there's a lot of people that doesn't consider that when they fly a drone is that when it fails, it could definitely hurt people. David Fairs  18:01  Yeah. It's actually illegal to fly above people. So yeah, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  18:06  yeah. So it's good that you mentioned that. Yeah. So I love to talk about, you know, some of the work that you continuously put out on, you know, on your SNMP as well as in your Twitter of, you know, whales and you know, some of the wildlife in the water. How do you go about finding this? Creatures, beautiful creatures, as well as you know? Like, what does it take to be able to capture or fine and David Fairs  18:41  captured? Yes, I wish I knew is the answer. It's just potluck. It's just like, I mean, there's been a couple of times where I've been in some group chats. And people will say, you know, oh, there's a pod coming up the coast right now, and they're being seen at this place. So you can kind of predict, but I genuinely like just deciding like today, I'm probably going to go drive down to chi ama around Golden Hour, and hope for the best because they're on the move at the moment. And so it's really just about being out there and you know, experiencing what nature has to offer so I've gotten very lucky in the past but I've also lucked out a lot of times you know, you go hear these reports as Wales around blah blah blah and then you go looking for them and even if you can see them sometimes you can't even find them with the drone. So it's really just luck and just consistency just trying to find them by turning up and you know, there's always something to shoot if they're not there. So, you know, you might get another composition or the sunset or whatever. It's just about being out there and shooting for me. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  19:54  That is a great advice, man. You know, I think a lot of us photographers put x periences For on top of all the photos that we're going to capture, you know, so we would still go out there and take our chances, even if we might not get anything out of it. So I think that's that's what energises us. That's what makes us excited about ally. So that that's, it's cool that you get to do more of that. And, you know, so what? What are you? You know, like you have, you have put up a few collections out on NFT. And you know, congratulations, by the way on this. On this Ilana, David Fairs  20:39  it does make you guys more mind blowing that was absolutely mind blowing. I couldn't believe it. In a bear market. It was just like, what is happening. So you know, I probably focus on salida for a little bit to be honest, just at the moment, may as well ride that momentum. And it allows me to put some work out that, you know, I can, I can actually choose a bigger collection of work and curate bodies of work, because on open sea and foundation and things like that I've, I've had some sales and success, but I've never sold out a collection. So it's nice to see the enthusiasm on Solana and collectors are very keen for photography. So yeah, I was blown away by that. It's just been wild to see that actually happening. I think it was two days or 12 pieces, which is gone. So yeah, I'm dropping something this Friday, because it's second collection, and then keep going from there. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  21:34  That's incredible. Yeah. So for those of you who don't know, what's NFP, I actually have a podcast, talking about what's in ft and the Solana and Etherium that David's talking about, it's basically kind of the the currency that become the platform of where you could sell the NFT. But I'd like to hear more about your NFT journey as well. You know, so what, what makes what drawn you into the NFT in the first place? And how did you find out about it? David Fairs  22:07  Yeah, so I was really lucky in that, I was in a great community on Instagram, with a lot of drone photographers, and just artists in general. And I built up a pretty good following on there, through just networking and sharing my work. A lot of opportunities came up through Instagram, so it was really good. And then it just started to just started to die off quite suddenly, when Facebook took over and they did you know, all the changes, and I think most photographers would understand what I'm talking about. So it just became quite discouraging. And I started to, to just, I don't know, not get depressed that it wasn't really a healthy space to be in for me. So I stepped away, and just focus on my family. And my job. And I was basically thinking that I had to get a pretty, you know, solid job to secure like, for security for my family that didn't really have anything to do with art because I was like, I've given it a go, I've tried and it's not it's more of a side hustle. And I need to focus on my career and just get a job, you know, maybe in finance or something where there's better money. You know, which would probably be soul crushing for someone like me. But anyway, long story short, I saw some friends get into the NFT game, and they had huge success. And my brother had told me about it the year before and I sort of thought, I don't know what your sounds dodgy. I don't know what you're talking about. You know, I didn't, I didn't want to have to go to another platform and start again, what I've done with Instagram, I thought I just don't have the energy to do that again. But I should have at that point, because it was like November 2019. And that's when you know, everything was kind of exploding. But anyway, I saw some friends had success and then I messaged them and said, you know what's, what's the goal here? What's going on? Because they sold 60 pieces overnight, you know, massive success on Aetherium. And they just ran me through everything and I thought okay, I'm gonna just go you know, I'll just start slow and I'll take my time and and then when I came in, everyone was just killing it like everyone was making sale. So I started to get really quite anxious and think I've got to get in before it's too late. So I rushed my whole thing and like I just grabbed a whole bunch of images that I was really proud of and put them out there quite a high price as a newbie and thought, you know, all these other guys are selling work for that. Why can't I so I launched this collection and I sold a few pieces straight off the bat. It was really quite amazing. And then it just snowballed from there. And I was like stuck with this all this art that no one was buying. And so it was a mixed journey, to be honest. But yeah, the entry was good. I launched people received it well. And I've just been welcomed by the community and connected with people like itself. And it's been incredible that side of it has just been absolutely amazing. And that's why I'm still here to be honest, because my art stalled. And I didn't have a lot of energy to just keep marketing stuff that wasn't going to provide me any return on investment of the time. Being a family, man, my time is so important. So I started to think, you know, what am I doing, but just the friends and everyone building each other up and connecting some positive, then something like Facebook or Instagram or any other platform, I get to talk with, you know, have these podcasts and connect on Zoom calls with other creatives. And it's just kept me really focused as an artist to believe in myself and think you know, that this is something that's really special that we've all found, and I want to stick with it. Even though times are tough right now, as you know, I think it's important to keep focus on your art and be positive. So yeah, that's pretty much journey, I guess, how I got into it, and why I'm still here. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  26:00  Yeah, that's, that's cool. And, you know, I know that a lot of people are sceptical about the NFT. And, you know, what's, what's what's possible. And it's, it's, it's crazy to see what's possible in the NFT space, because at the end of the day, it's, it's not a it's not, it's not a way to make money, it's just a tool, and you know, how you make how you plan to use that tool, it's really entirely up to you. So I'm really excited actually, to see, you know, where is this NFT kind of going to Def flop to, you know, in the future? Because it's yeah, I just see that so many people already coming up with so many creative ideas. So, who are you, you know, you have a family, you, you do your photography, and you know, now you jump into the NFT world, which is, you know, going like Samsung miles per second or kilometres per hours, right? Whatever metric you're using, how do you find the time to be able to do all that, you know, because that all of that takes time. And, you know, it's, it's always hard to be able to find a time to be to be active and to be present in so that you can stay relevant in the social media, let alone, you know, with everything that has happened with, you know, family and everything in real life. So how do you find the time and what it is that you do to be able to balance that? David Fairs  27:38  Yeah, it's a really good question on that, I'm still figuring it out. To be honest. I just dedicate as much time as I can to my family first. But my wife is very supportive and understands the success that could the potential success in this space with web three. And so I, we've worked out kind of a routine around it, where I say, Do I need to do this much shooting to create art, for one, that's the most important and then also need to do the networking and the marketing as well. And so it is, I am treating it like a business in that I lock in for a certain amount of time. I make sure I'm very productive. And then I log off. And I, you know, I'm not just scrolling my phone and all that sort of software's. We don't join the space. The reason I've gotten to that part is I learned the hard way. So when I joined the space, I was just on 24/7, like you said, it's like moving 1000 miles per hour, my brain was absorbing, you know, information so fast that I didn't really know how to keep up. And I burnt out to be honest. And so I joined officially joined, I rented a collection in March of 2021. And then I officially joined NFT Twitter in September, because I didn't I have no idea that that's where you did all your marketing. I thought you did it on open sea. So anyway, that's another story. But I then from September, I felt like I had to play catch up because everyone was, you know, go go go. And then people were killing it. Like I was blown away at how many sales were being made every day. It was horrible. Like, I've never experienced anything like it before. I never want to again, and I don't want anyone else to have to go through it. And that was just purely because I wasn't looking after myself. And I was just focused on NF T's. So at that point, I was forced to take a break and step away. I missed a whole lot of opportunities. I felt really horrible. And it was a really negative experience. But I've come back from that arrested, I focus on family and just what I could do to get myself back to normal and then now that I'm in a better place, I'm very weary of that reality and making sure that you know, my time is spent very well when I'm alone Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  30:00  That's incredible. And, you know, thanks for sharing that. You know, I think burnout is a really difficult thing to avoid, especially when you try to achieve something very hard and like, for people who are in the office, you know, if they working for to make a living when they get burnout, it's, it's gonna work but for us, because it's the things that it's our passion, it's what energise us, though is what makes us alive. So when you burn out, you cannot lose, you know, everything and you know, lose that passion. So, I'm glad that, you know, you take your time off and reprioritize. So, how can you share with us a little bit? How, what what did you do when you when you have that burnout? You know, did you lose your passion for photography? If so, how did you get that passion back? And you know, I know that I see you more active again, you know, and of course, you're, you're crushing it as well with the with the NFB collection. Solana. Right. So how did you kind of spring back from that, and basically, stand stronger, and you know, taller from that experience. David Fairs  31:26  So several things have contributed to that. And one of it is the community, whatever it is a really good friend of mine that I've made online called Jason O'Rourke, you might know him Jason iPhoto. He literally just carried me through even though it wasn't online, I was I was literally I couldn't be I had deleted Twitter, I was off line completely. Because I was like, just a mess. You know, I feel so bad for my family. Because my wife had to pick up the slack. I couldn't even help with the kids or anything. It was it was very serious. And the only reason I'm sharing this is not to be a victim, you know, feel sorry for me, it's to let people know how serious it isn't it what can happen. I think it's very important for us all to kind of share those experiences and look out for each other. So Jason, he basically was my marketing manager at that point in time. And he just, he was sharing my staff while I wasn't there and checking in with me, and, and then he was making sure everyone else was helping to. And I think that's one of the things that kept me alive in the space is that like, you know, it's not just about the art, it's about the community as well. And the friends that I've made and the connections, everyone is generally trying to help each other succeed, which is just, I've never experienced anything like that before in the art space, it's usually dog, a dog come from corporate background as well. It's like everyone's climbing over each other to get to the top right. So that, and I never lost the passion for art, I just was really upset that I wasn't able to even go out and create anything, because I just couldn't make I was just sleeping like I was so mentally exhausted, that I couldn't even fathom driving to the beach to take some shots. So I think it was like more of a disappointment than I'd gotten to that point without realising what I was doing. And I just promised myself that it was never going to happen again. And then I would get better. And eventually, you know, it didn't take long, it wasn't months or anything. It was just a few weeks of rest. And then my wife said to me, like, look, I've got the kids, why don't you go to wherever you want your favourite place and just shoot some photos, like just take the day and go and do some photography, because I know you miss it. And then, you know, how lucky am I to have a partner like that that's supportive like that just, I felt guilty leaving it with the kids. But then that day is a bit that's a very important day for me because I did get that joy back and I realised that it is a part of what I want to do and who I am. And I just loved it. I didn't even get any photos that I was happy with. But I just really relish that day to shoot from sunrise all the way through to sunset and go home. So yeah, that would be probably the biggest point for me. And I was like, okay, I can do this now. Like, let's go. And like I said, it's just more balanced and more healthy approach to the whole side of it. And I've just been lucky to have that success. Like you said recently that fired me up. Okay, I can do this. Let's go. Let's go. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  34:29  That's fantastic, man. Thanks for sharing. You know, I think it's really important to share that thing because I know that when when people see us on social media, you know, they might not seen this, not only because not only because there's a lot more successes we share on the social media, but also the algorithm makers so that you know, we don't see everything so even if we share it, they might not see that so it's exactly you know, the reason why I started this podcast is that you know, I want to share with you People who are trying to get their, to realise that it is simple, but it is not easy, you know, to get there and you just share a whole lot of jam there. So, I know Jason Jason is, is such a beautiful human is it is. So it's great to be able to, you know, to build relationship like that through social media, right? Of all As and he's like, all the way in Hawaii, right. So I think that's what's really cool about it. And, you know, a lot of people say a lot of negative thing about whatever it is. But I think if they focus on the good, they might find more benefit than focusing on the bad itself. I think at the end of the day, there's always something bad about whatever it is we're doing whatever it is in life, and it looks like you have that approach. So that's, that's incredible. Actually, when you share that story, I have like a goosebumps because I know exactly how that feel where you just go out, you know, you just you just take photo, you don't get any photo. That's, that's like crazy, beautiful or anything like that. But it just feels sort of happy to be able to get that feeling back. So I'm glad that you're able to do that made. You know, suddenly, like you have an an amazing wife, who is supportive of you showing up and that takes you through this whole thing. And you know, just hearing that I was like, Wow, maybe I should have her into podcasts. David Fairs  36:38  Next time. She's, she's an amazing woman. Yeah, she is. She's just been such an incredible mom. And got me through some really hard times. So you have to shout it out. For sure. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  36:50  That's fantastic. Yeah, I think that's you know, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's the real partner in life right? Through thick and thin. Yeah, that's, that's really cool. So, you mentioned earlier that there are some pieces you know, that you have, you know, that takes a long, long time for you to put out there. You know, you keep dabbling on that you keep playing around with until you finally happy with it. Is there any piece that come in mind, I would love to hear a story behind that. And what makes it so difficult to put it out there? David Fairs  37:30  Yeah, that's a good question. There's a few that come to mind. I guess the the pieces I have on foundation definitely fit that bill at the moment. They're the ones that there's a picture of Bronte rock pool that I designed as a guitar. It took me a good year to get happy with that. And to create that pace. Just because I had to keep returning from I was originally living over in northern beaches, and having to drive to Bondi and Bronte was like an hour or two like to get there in traffic. So I think I went back like seven times to get the light in the way I wanted a wave coming over the pool. And, you know, that sort of approach, it took me a lot of work to get that and then finally to get the shot, and then create the composite with the guitar image over the top. And I think there's like hundreds of layers in Photoshop for that one. So that is the kind of thing I'm talking about in terms of like the process and, and how I just keep pushing and pushing until I'm 100% happy with it. I'm still not 100% happy with that one. Like I still see things in and I'm like, Oh, I could have got one of the shadows is slightly off. But I don't know people don't seem to notice. But I've got actually one that like I said he's about four years old. Yeah. Which was a picture that Mr. Watson shared. I don't know if you remember from the she's a drone, Archie did a free FFA challenge where people could edit her work and a bunch of other people on Instagram as well. And I entered a trial to try to enter a pitch of hers I entered another shot from another photographer, which did really well but MERS one was Bromo volcano in Indonesia. And what I wanted to do is actually cut out the volcano itself, the smoke all the layers, the foreground background middle ground, I wanted to animate a 3d camera through it. And so like I've done the work but it's it doesn't look quite right. And I don't want to share it because it's not like to in my head, I've got the picture of what it needs to look like and it's not there. So that's one that I'll keep working on and keep brushing up my skills on and you know, I could easily just outsource it to someone to like get you know, a really high tech animator and say hey, this is the brief and and get it done. But I'm determined to make it work myself and to keep improving those skills. So yeah, that's probably one I've got heaps of others if you want to hear more stories Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  40:00  Yeah, that's, that's awesome, man. Yeah, I think it's, it's, it's cool that you have some that, you know, you just put out there and you you don't procrastinate and you just, you know, you're okay with those imperfection. But there's some that you're really close to and you have that vision in your head. I think, you know, a lot of us I think that's, that's what makes it makes makes it hard to put out there because we have this vision. We have been thinking about it, we have been picturing it, but it's just doesn't seem right. It's like, you know, so I totally, I totally can relate to that. That's, that's fantastic. Well, David, so you know, you you share the law with a lot of how you get started with your photography, also, you know, where some of the struggles that you came across, and you made a lot of success in the NFT world, as well as you know, in in the Solana blockchain. What, what's what are you excited about in the in the coming future? Is there anything that you're excited about, you know, in real life as well as you know, maybe in the in the metaverse or in the NFT? World? David Fairs  41:14  Yeah, so in real life, I definitely am looking forward to this whale season and getting some more what captures around the whales, I've been documenting them for about five years now. So it's been awesome to kind of follow that journey with the calves coming back down the coast in September as well, they keep having babies every year, and the numbers are getting stronger, which is really, you know, it's such a positive thing to see in our world at the moment with, you know, a lot of doom and gloom in around the environment and nature. So I think for me, being a lover of animals and nature, seeing something positive every year happening is is very important for me to keep hoping in what's going on around the world. So I'm excited about that. I'm excited about being a dad and raising my kids well, and, you know, just focusing more on that challenge. And you know, because I've sort of gravitated to work more than looking at after them because I'm good at working hard. And I can sit on the computer and edit videos and have a powerhouse behind the behind the keyboard. But when it comes to kids, it scares the hell out of me. They're challenging, and I'm not, you know, I'm not a master of it. I don't think anyone is. So I kind of need to, I'm excited about being a better dad and spending time with them and getting out in the on the trampoline and the, you know, the fort and watching them just enjoy life and taking them out to experience photography as well. You know, that's something that I'm really excited about. They're not at a level now where they can handle, you know, sunrise and sunset missions. But I think once they're old enough, I've already got cameras for them. And yeah, I really want to share that with them and pass on the love of the ocean and hiking in the wilderness that my dad did to me, you know, that was one of the best gifts he ever gave me. And so if I can do that for them, I'll be very proud. In terms of the metaverse excitement is just building that base, like you said, I think on Solana, I've been able to get 12 New collectors. And that's been huge. And I've realised that, you know, it's not just about the money, it's more about connecting with people who connect with your art and building that base. And then I think eventually the business will side of it will take care of itself as long as you can get more people sharing your art and be interested in your artwork. So I'm really excited about where Solana is gonna go, actually. And yeah, like I said, we focus there a lot. The community is amazing, like the collectors, thanking me for my art and DMing me and going wow, so glad I got your piece. Thanks so much. And it's like, I hang on No, thank you. So it's really refreshing to see that I've had, you know, I've had some success on the theory and but like, it's so saturated and so competitive. I think it's a different, a different world and some other sort of more up and coming so yeah, I'm very excited about that. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  44:10  Yeah, that's great, man. I think that's, you know, that's, that's what we look for as an artist. I mean, of course, you know, it's important to sell our art because we, you know, that's our social currency. Like to survive, we need money, but being able to sell an art to someone who truly appreciated that, you know, that's, that's, that's priceless. You know, the appreciation just, I know that feeling and I know how, how much it's more important than than the money so that's amazing, man. Kudos to you and massive congratulations on your success. I'm very happy for you to make that happen. David Fairs  44:53  That's Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you so much. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  44:56  No worries and you definitely deserve it because, ya know, because we were like, we're gonna do like a podcast and you're like, No, I'm busy doing this. I was like, yes, that's cool. And you know, and the next thing you know, like, so that was like, it's crazy, man. That's awesome. Yeah, so we're coming to the end of our podcast. Now, David. And one thing they are always asked my guess is, if there is one advice that you could give to the audience out there, whether it's photography, advice, life advice, whatever it may be, what would that be? David Fairs  45:33  I think my biggest lesson that I've learned in his past sort of couple of years is, whatever you're doing, I do it with intention. Like don't just kind of, you know, social media, particularly in this this space that I'm in, we're talking about NF T's. You can get caught up in just doing and doing and doing and trying to get into every single thing that's happening in a very fast kind of rapid pace environment. But one thing that's really helped me is to sit back and breathe and go, What am I actually trying to achieve here right now in this moment, like, what am I doing? Is it going to be productive for me? Is it important? Do I need to do it right at this moment? or is there other things that I can focus on. So just bringing consciousness and awareness into your everyday routines and trying to get things done quickly and efficiently. So you have more time for enjoying the things you enjoy. And getting outdoors is very important for me, and everyone, I think, and not just trapped at a computer focused on, you know, the social media and all these things. I think that's quite toxic for human beings to have too much of that. So yeah, that'd be my best advice is just to be really kind to yourself, look after yourself. And then those your friends and family that you love around you make sure you spend time with them. And, you know, you could balance it out them with what you'd love to do online, and we've got outside of things as well. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  47:09  Fantastic, man. Yeah, I think that's really important to be able to find that balance. And you said it yourself, you know, how you kind of share your burnout. So yeah, thanks a lot for that advice. And, you know, I'm sure that audiences will find that inspiring. Now, for the people who want to learn about, you know, who you are, and your art and your photography, you know, where, where can they find you. David Fairs  47:41  So Twitter's probably the best place to connect at the moment, that's where I'm most active. So at New Light visuals is my handle. But I'm in the middle of crap, creating a link on my website, I have new light visual.com as a website, you can contact me there for anything and check out my work. And I'll be creating a page or layer with all of my web three, as well, instead of my link tree. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  48:06  Incredible, man, that's awesome. So we'll Don't worry, guys, we'll put all of that link on, you know, on the description below. So you could literally just click on it. But thanks a lot for being here. Thanks a lot for sharing your journey, you know, not only your successes, but also the struggles that you come across. I know for every success, there's always a struggle, I never seen somebody succeed without it. So I think it's really important to be able to recognise that and to be able to acknowledge that so that you don't, you know, fall to this false belief that is just an overnight success. So David, thank you very much for being here and sharing this knowledge. And, yeah, is there anything you want to share? Or before we wrap up? David Fairs  49:01  No, man, I just wanted to say thanks very much for having me on. I really appreciate the opportunity. And I know it took us a while to get here, but I'm stoked to finally meet up with you and see you in person. You know, you've been such a great supporter of me, and I love your work. And we've connected quite a lot online. So it's, it's really good. And I look forward to doing more with you there. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  49:21  That's amazing. Yeah, I think that's what's really cool about the online world, you know, like, you get to connect with people all over the world. But that's also what's not cool about is like, when you're in an online world, you cannot be in real life. And that's hard balances, right? Like you say, like, I remember when I came back from Nepal and came back to Twitter, I was like, Oh, I get to see these people again and talk to these people and see there are so it's you're right, the balance is really difficult, and it's really important, but I'm glad to to have met you to have seen your art and came across your art and have you here so that's incredible. Well We can't do this. Thank you very much for tuning in and check out David's work. He has some incredible work I love, you know, his pieces on on the coast on Australia close, capturing this beautiful moments while people are serving as well as some of really unique moments of the wildlife that came across his drone. So that's really incredible to be able to see that and see how much it it it energises him as a creator. But for those of you who enjoy this podcast, don't forget to hit the subscribe button and give a little bit of review. And with that being said, I'll see you guys next week.  

Hello Wicked Hunters,  Welcome back to another episode of The Art of Photography Podcast.  I'm so excited to share this week's podcast with Abrahanny Rodriguez, an amazing photographer and kind-hearted human who always supports fellow artists around her.  Abrahanny is an international event and landscape photographer, passionate about community and capturing worldwide experiences.  Abrahanny Rodriguez is a wife and mother to two amazing teenagers who loves music and is passionate about capturing new experiences.  Her photography journey began after Libni. Her husband saw something in her that she did not see in herself.  He believed in her art and encouraged her by telling her how good she was at capturing moments.  Trusting his word and believing God had gifted her to capture something special, Libni and Abrahanny started Abrahanny Photography in 2010.   If you want to learn more about Abrahanny's work, you can find it here: Link to social media: Website - abrahanny.com Instagram - www.instagram.com/abrahanny/?hl=en Twitter - twitter.com/abrahannyr Link to NFT on Opensea - opensea.io/Abrahanny   Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: • Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify   • Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography   • Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr   • Website: https://podcast.thewickedhunt.com      • Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr     For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography by Stanley Aryanto: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/  • Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com      • Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/   Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation. It would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.  ------------------------- Transcription: Abrahanny Rodriguez  0:00  We're always going to struggle with something, I would encourage you to not let it stop you from creating, but just create some more, just be more creative, just keep pushing past the insecurity. It is how we handle insecurity that determine the outcome of our art of our careers. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:27  Hey, we can do this Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we get photographers on board and get them to share their passion in photography, their story and their journey so that you can learn how we get a whole purpose and happiness from our passion in photography. And today, we have someone all the way from the US and says, you know, I've come across her from the clap house era, which was probably about a couple of years ago now, during the pandemic, and she's been someone who's I find very uplifting and inspirational. And this is why I want her to be on board. And you know, of course, he's a fantastic photographers, and have a really good clientele as well. And this is habra, handy. Rouhani how's it going? Abrahanny Rodriguez  1:17  Hello, hi, Stanley, and everyone else listening. Thank you for having me. I'm so honoured. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:24  Welcome to the podcast. You know, I'm really excited to have you on board. Because you know, I'll talk to you on Barnabe clubhouse of talk to you on Twitter spaces, and I get a lot of inspiration, even just, you know, from those snippets of chat. So I'm so excited to have you for the full hour today. Abrahanny Rodriguez  1:42  I'm so excited. I feel like our Clubhouse days, kind of like open a door of opportunities to do so much more together as a community where we met other photographers and connected on a personal level, had some discussion, maybe some challenges we each wanted to, like challenge each other with and I think that was so fun. And I'm like so honoured that I've met you through that, through that app, and so many other great people that I now know and love and I enjoy chatting with and you're one of them for sure. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  2:13  Ah, that's great. I appreciate that. You know, like, I think that the club has, you're right, it was really cool. It was a groundbreaking innovation where we can actually connect with people to social media, I always struggled to connect with people through social media, and that app really helped. And you know, now with the Twitter space as well, we get to do that. I know there's a lot of anxiety and you know, impostor syndrome when you start talking because everyone is so awesome in there, but never. It's a great place to to, to connect and build community. So yeah. So let us know who's Abrahamian you know what you do? And what's your passion in photography? Abrahanny Rodriguez  3:00  Well, I'm a wife. I'm a mother of two amazing boys. One, a soccer player and the other one loves racing. And so we have a lot of a lot of different sports in our life. But I am a photographer who is passionate about people. I'm passionate about building community, talking with people and just being an aid if I can. I feel like I learned so much through people through talking with people with sharing experiences. I think it's such a key component to life experiences. And so I love those new opportunities. And I thoroughly enjoy that. So my passion is people my passion is photograph people my passion is meet new people meet people in real life. I feel like clubhouse gave me the opportunity to meet them behind the screen. And then when I was travelling, I was like, Oh, hey, I'm in your town, can we meet up and I met up with some friends because I was in their town or in the city that I met through either club house or tutor spaces. And so I am really excited that one day I hope I pray that I get to meet Stanley in person. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  4:08  Oh, absolutely. It's gonna happen. It's just a matter of time. Yeah, so that's how does that you know, because you just say you love people. And I can see that so much. You know, you're, you know, just listening to this first five minutes or so you already have this really high energy, you know, with people and you know where you are today. It's like, what 9pm at night or something like that. I don't know, how does this energy up? Right, and how does that translate to your photography? Abrahanny Rodriguez  4:38  That's such a good question. I feel like my passion and my creativity is drawn by what I see and what I hear and my conversations with people. And so my client, most of my clients are our events. And so I love doing behind the scene and kind of just like being just the watchful for photographer, the journalistic view, but I do a lot of portraits I do a lot of, I guess music videos in the Christian aspect. So the some artists in the Spanish genres just kind of hire me on to be a part of their studio set, and then give me little breaks here in between, because obviously, video is the top of priorities. And I've been able to capture some fun moments, I think, because of my personality and got to meet so many and then get referrals that way, because they just love working with someone that's upbeat, that's positive, and that brings good energy, but also a lot of creativity. And so I'm always, I'm always going. And so I feel like that helps me and actually, my energy comes from people, I am a true extrovert. And my husband is a true introvert. So I feel like you're always on opposite ends. And so my husband's restful time, he gets energy from being at home, and I get energy from being around people. And so I think that's really where all of that comes from. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  6:03  Wow, that's, that's, that's amazing. I mean, yeah, I can really hear that excitement. And who doesn't want to work with somebody with that much excitement and passion in life right. Now, like, you know, like, you do a lot of like, you do travel, and then you capture also, beautiful shots of your travels, you know, one of your MFT collection was from Santorini, for example, as well as other photos that you've captured in the US with the Milky Way, for example. Those shot doesn't really help people in it, but how do you pull your passion to through those because I could definitely see your love for photography and new love for those spaces without the people in it. Abrahanny Rodriguez  6:47  Yeah, that's really interesting. So I was travelling to be a part of a photography conference, outside like an international conference. And I was a part of several of those. But the centering was actually one of the favourite views. Definitely one of the favourite views. Such a beautiful island. And so I take what I what I know, from being a photographer from being a photographer for years now, and apply some of that to landscape. And obviously, I can't compare to some of the big top landscape photographers, but I absolutely love capturing moments like that. And opportunity to show my friends and family where I've been and come back home and show them these beautiful sceneries and people. And so I pour that into that because I feel like oh my gosh, I can't wait for my husband to see this, oh, my gosh, my kids are gonna love it. And so I translate that into what I'm pouring into my camera, what I'm capturing how I'm detailing compositing, we're moving things around, the composition is important, obviously. But in my head, I'm like, Oh, my gosh, I can't wait for my bet my friends and family to see this. And so I feel like I bring that back. And that energy into everything I capture, really, my family is my priority is them. And so every time I'm taking something, or I'm looking at something, I was like, Oh my gosh, they are going to love see this. And so I kind of bring them along with me in my heart, obviously. Um, but yeah, Santorini, I did a collection for the NFT for my NFT, and I just, I translated that as like, I can't do anything. Photography wise for this conference, or whatever, because I was there either modelling or taking pictures, learning, lighting, and things like that. But then also, I was kind of separating myself and taking pictures on my own, and kind of going off on my own to capture these specific locations that I thought were beautiful. And then thinking, oh my gosh, the way I can share this with the world and do more with it is to put them in a collection as an NF. T. And that's exactly what I did. And, and yeah, so I have I have a passion to showcase where I've been through images, mainly because I'm thinking, Oh, my gosh, look at this scenery. And so I feel that way, when I see your pictures, I gotta tell you, Stanley like, Well, you already know this about me. I love your images. I love them. They're so creative. I think your composite is great. Your composition is amazing. And so I'm thinking to like, oh my gosh, imagine him there on that ice with his hand with his feet up in the air and his hand on that ice. Like, how did he take that shot? Like my head is just question question. That's awesome. This is you know, and so when I go out, I'm thinking, Man, how can I recreate something that I've seen from another photographer or conversation that I've had with someone that's generated this question like, How can I do this? And so I think that's a lot of fun for me, but it's part of the creative process as a photographer of how can I implement what I've learned what I've heard, and maybe that curiosity man I had this doubt like Can I put that into, and I can't do that with the client. Most of the time, obviously, they're asking for you to be creative, and you are, but you can't really step outside of their box and their timeframe and their timeline. And so when I travel, I have the opportunity to do that to step outside of that box and just kind of do some things on my own. Now, I went to France, and I wasn't on my own, I had a little group, and I am so honoured that I got to travel with this group we shared everything was amazing experience. But then it's not like I have my own free will to just go out and do whatever. But it was so cool. And this is why I'm passionate about community is because we would have an idea, and we feed off of each other. And we were like a little group. We had one model, and three of us were photographers and our little group, our core group as we were travelling, and friends were like, Oh, how about this? Oh, how about that. And then I'm all into long exposure, they said, I was like, Oh my gosh, this long exposure. And we'll put Mimi over here. And we will put the model here and the car passing. And then the other guy travelling with us is a light painter who does the long exposure, and he was teaching us how to do certain things on our trips. I was like, oh my god, that was so and so just to like, share, and, and dive in with creative. It generates so much passion, creativity, just love for what you do. And then you come back from those trips, refreshed, renewed, ready to, you know, do new things with your clients ready to try new things. Because to be honest, sometimes. Especially as I was starting out in photography, I would shy away of doing certain things to clients, because I wasn't sure how was it gonna look, but then I wasn't sure if they would give me the creative liberty to do that. And so to go on, and do these things on our own is just so fun. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  11:51  Yeah, that's awesome. I mean, it's, it's one of the reason, well, I could definitely relate to what you were saying, you know, one of the reasons why I started photography is to be able to share what I've seen, and it's actually one of the reason why I want to be able to capture better photography, because before when I capture it doesn't really represent what I've seen. So you know, it kind of disappoints me when I share the people. And then I was like, ah, yeah, it's much better when you're there. So that was a big motivation. So it's awesome to be able to hear that from you. And, you know, like, yeah, it's really interesting, because you really find that balance, and it feels like the time alone in your freedom capturing that landscape and your time with people capturing portraits really feed off each other and make your, like, keep pushing the boundary of your photography, which is really great. So before all this, you know, you're you do photography for a living, we do a lot of photo shoot for a lot of people, you know, including some of the welding people and by but before you get there, how did you get started? How do you fall in love with photography and tell yourself that you want to do this for a living? Abrahanny Rodriguez  13:12  I love that. You mentioned that because i i started young, I lived in New York, let me start there. I was born and raised in New York, in the creative state of New York City. And the things that I did as part of my curriculum of school was art dance, and the outside of school as well. I did dance, and I did creative things. I did painting. I was so good at it. But I did a lot of creative things. And one of them was modelling. And I was in love with modelling like for me, that was it. That's all I wanted to do forget about singing and everything else. But I was like straight my mom, both my parents, but definitely my mom was very strict on me focusing on something else other than modelling, and I wanted modelling and so my dad was very reluctant, very, you know, Dominican Hardhead a kind of like, no, no, no, you're gonna be selling your body out there. There's a and, but the experience I had on the modelling agency that I was a part of was awesome. It was very gruelling, because you had to learn a lot of things, you had to do a lot of things that will send you on shoes, and you had to represent very well. So it was very trying very, you know, cross border lines, and my parents were like, no, no, no. But I loved it. And then and then I had to stop doing it. And so, um, but I always looked at how the photographers on the other end, were kind of guiding me and I had to take modelling classes, obviously to represent every time you go out like there's a foundation you have to know and modelling was one of them. You have to know your poses, you know how to how to move a flow every time that life flashes, you know, you move a certain way, etc. How to essentially your body. You I learned this early on as a child. And I've never really used it outside of that timeframe until I started doing photography. Now the way I got into photography was because my firstborn, actually right before my firstborn, we had a trip, I went to Venezuela, my husband bought me a point and shoot camera, and we took it on a trip coming back from our trip, the people we were travelling with, I was singing in this band or this travel group. And they came back and asked me, Hey, can we share the pictures that you took while we were on the trip? So we can put on a bulletin board kind of share how our trip went? I was like, of course. It's amazing. Yeah, I love that to last, you know, like, and we had so much fun. So I had a lot of fun pictures. Like I was taking pictures while we were eating and just joking around at the beach, like really cool things. But not while we were like on stage or anything, mainly because I was singing and my husband playing the piano, like there was, you know, a lot of movement. There's not a lot of time for that. But while we were in soundcheck, I was like capturing the cables and things like that with my point and shoot. So someone told me, you have a very creative bias. This is like super cool. And I was like, Oh, you're so kind, whatever, you know, and kind of left it like that. And then my son was born and my husband's like, you should totally, like use a camera to take pictures of him. So I asked him like, Oh, but I don't think you know, so I asked him for like a better gear, whatever. And at the time, we didn't have the budget. So he borrowed a camera or like a semi pro camera or whatever, and was like, Oh, just use it. And we did two pictures of our baby and, and I have those pictures are so fun. They were just for us. There wasn't for you know, to like handout, whatever. But my mother in law shared it with someone my mom shared with someone else. And they're just like talking about how creative my images were. And I was like, oh, that's to kind of you didn't do anything. But then now the place that I was attending where I was singing, I was worship. I was in worship, I sang in a platform anyways. I was in church, and they were like, you're really good at this next Sunday, we have an event Do you want to shoot? And I was like, Okay, I'll do that. And so that kind of got me started. And that was in Jersey, I lived in Jersey at the time. And that kind of got me started on doing kind of events, learning the ropes of like shooting fast. So then I started taking classes online. Creative Live was very instrumental. Taking classes in person, there was a camera store that had photographers come and teach in Jersey, which I took, and my husband was signed me up for these random classes at this photography store. I was like you're going, I'm gonna pick up the kids. Or you can go and I was just like, oh my god, I literally have an hour to get ready. And it was just like those, like, my husband really encouraged and pushed me forward. And he really saw creativeness in me that I didn't see in myself. And he nourished it by pushing me to go into these classes. And then while I was sitting on these classes, sharing my work, the teachers were like, Oh, this is really good. Oh, oh, you should try this next time, you should try that. And that's how that developing grew. And then I moved to Texas, and I was very, I was connected with some friends here. Because I studied I came to college here, university. And so then they were like, Oh, I have this event. I really need someone to capture this. And then I was like, Okay, how much I was like, No, I mean, just give me money for gas and food. I'm good. You know, like, I'll show up. And that's how that started. And then from then on, I just been shooting a lot of conferences, meeting a lot of people shooting for people with big names only because I knew whoever was managing or planning that event. And so that has been a huge blessing to me. But also the willingness to always learn never think higher of myself ever. I still feel like I'm still learning and growing. I'm still calling on friends and saying, Hey, would you curate this? Tell me what you think about this. And so I think that's important as a creative to always stay learning cameras change, we have to change as well, right? Like gear improve, we have to keep improving. That's my perspective. It says how I see it. So that's how that started. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  19:25  That's awesome. I love hearing that, you know, and you're such a humble person has, you know, you just like you always you're a great photographer and you always feel like you know, there's more people out there who are better than you and probably they are but you know, you're a great photographer and yourself. And it's, it's sometimes it's hard for ourselves to see what we're capable of and sometimes it takes someone to believe in us to be able to pursue or realise that potential. Wow. And that's really great that you have a husband who's very encouraging you know, that push you and get you to where you are to do your work, you know what your you really love now, but I think that's, that's really cool story to where it all started. So that's amazing. And so, you know, like we talked about kind of start getting to know photography can I just, you know, playing around with it and dabbling with it. And people are starting to believe or say that your photography good, but you still don't think that it's real? Because you know, people who are close to us probably one say when it's bad, right? That's right. So so what is that point when you realise that your photography is actually good, you know, and that your start believing in your work and start saying that, you know, wow, I can take great photographer, I can offer good value to people, I can capture these different shots and share the story, the moment that you live through this photography. Abrahanny Rodriguez  21:10  That's really interesting, because I agree, I feel like I still struggled to this day. And I feel like it started clicking, I feel like I started getting better because I was literally applying what I was learning and just practising often. And I just did it as much as I could set the time, I had two small children to take care of, and I was a stay at home mom, my husband and I decided that, but he but at the same time, I needed something to keep me going. And so my husband would sign me up and get me going. And I was practising my craft, before I did anything outside before I, you know, share my art with other people. And so it gave me some sort of foundation of base to get started. But I didn't think I was good enough for a really long time like yours, like you were saying, until people that I admire or people that I looked up to with say, You got something good going, or they would make small comments, then people that I I respected would share something, you know, that they saw in my image, or they saw in an event photo that I took, and they said, Man, I cry when I saw that image, or and so then it impacted me that I could create something that would impact other people. And then I was confronted with myself with with their conversation because then it made me reflect man, I'm so negative to myself that I can't even accept their comments. And so then I'm having the the tough issue about what what is it that I'm believing? What is it that I need to start confronting within me? And I had tough conversations like that with my husband who always says, but I always tell you, you're good at this. And you're like, No, I'm not No, I'm not like he's like he's pointing out how often I've done it throughout my entire life. And I've always felt like I'm not good enough. And that is something that I still battle. And I also think it's a thought that we have believed that lie because it's a lie. And we believe this so much that in everything we do we come across first with none good enough to keep pushing, I'm not good enough. It's also helped me push through some of my challenges because I always thought not good enough. So I gotta keep keep keep going. But it's also very harmful and very dangerous. And then we have this imposter syndrome where I don't belong here. I shouldn't be here. I'm not good enough for this. Look at all these amazing people. I still feel that way sometimes with my NMC word when they're not selling you're like, oh gosh, what am I doing wrong? Like you're still I feel like that we are all bad, especially creatives, mainly because our mind is constantly creating new things we are meant to create. There's something in us that's innate to create. And so we are always struggling that what are what are we creating and if I'm creating something isn't good enough because I'm a perfectionist at it. So I want to make sure that my show is perfect. And that's a problem. You know, that's a problem. Sometimes we don't always need to get to perfect. But there's there's something about a creative person that always thinks it's not done. And so we push past that and I push past that now these days with talking to people first my husband and then sharing it with people that I admire, sharing my work with, with other photographers that I value their opinion and I can honestly then say, okay, okay, I'm gonna confront this differently because I hear from you and it's so interesting because you hear from other people, there are some pieces that I must say that I'm be like, Oh my gosh, I work really hard to get this, I used a lot of nuggets to get this piece. This was awesome. And it's really interesting because it doesn't always happen. But in that moment, when it does happen, you feel like, I'm really proud of myself. And so it's like one of those pens in the back that feel really good. And it's like a warm hug to your heart that, that you really felt it, you know, and so I feel like those moments are happening more as they age. I feel like I'm feeling more comfortable in my own insecure skin. But I'm confronting insecurity differently. And as a young, creative, that was really tough. But as I'm ageing, I feel like the more confronted with with positive thoughts, but also with truth, you know, like, go go to someone that has truth, they can speak truth into your life that you value and honour their word, and hear them out, and then analyse it, and then go to someone else that you value and honour and value their work and then see, you know, okay, this is true, this is their truth, this is the truth. They're telling me that this is a lie, I believe, for so long that I need to, I need to get past it through other people's words. And so I feel like words are important, what we say to other people, and important, that's why I try as much as I can to be positive with others, because what we say to ourselves matter, but what we hear from other people matter. And I think a lot of people are going around the world, spewing a lot of words that are not encouraging are not positive, they're not uplifting. And so we have this cycle of negativity, that at least in my worldview, in my if I can help it, I'm going to not be that person. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  26:56  That is interesting. You know, I think it's the same for me as well, it was hard to take compliments until I can't remember was it a podcast or, and he was actually he either a podcast or a book. I can't remember which one it was, it was actually directed to women, but I could definitely resonate with it. Because I couldn't take compliment as well. And you know, I'm not sure if it was coming from your culture. But for me, it was definitely coming from a culture right? Where we have to be humble, we cannot you know, any thing where you say, Oh, yes, I am good. Even though you are good, even though in a humble way, you still look as if you're arrogant, which not necessarily true. And in that book or podcast, which I can't remember where it came from, basically say, when you done something good, and you've been complimented, take it just say you know, don't don't downplay it, because most of the times, like, Oh, you're too kind. Thank you. So you say just take it just off. Thank you. I appreciate that, you know, and give that appreciation. But you're right, I think we are our worst critic, isn't it? You know, it's really hard to tell ourselves that we have done a good thing. And, you know, you you just share how it you've been struggling with this and it's difficult to give you that self confidence and give you that that belief that you are in that level comparing to other people, but how do you pass push past that how what are the things that change to a point that you are okay to take compliment that you can start believing on other people, you know, that we are at that level instead of that, you know, they just saying that because they are being nice. Abrahanny Rodriguez  28:51  Yeah, I like to read. I like to read I find wisdom with in others, I find wisdom. I'm Faith based, I find wisdom in the word, I find wisdom in things around me. I feel like there's a lot of wise people older than us that have a lot of insight to give us as well. And, and I'm constantly searching and I feel like that also helps. But I got to that point, like you were mentioning that you just gonna say accept it. You know, my husband had a moment with me and set up. He just he just put his fingers up and said no, you're not gonna say a word right after this compliment. You know, he's like, just don't say it. And it just got me thinking I've spent all these years not accepting it so it never allowed me to feel confident in what I do. And I need it to feel confident so I can feel confident in front of others. I can feel confident, not fake phoney confidence where you fake it till you make it. I feel Like that helps you get somewhere for sure. But then you have to live it or you have to live it out. And that came is probably a book. It could be a podcast. Sometimes I walk with podcasts in my ears, and I feel like the confrontation. It could probably be much more wrote Myles Munroe talks a lot about courage and stepping up to your fears, and facing them face head on. And I came to one of those moments where I'm alone. And I have all these thoughts. And I'm thinking, I have to I have to live this in real life, like I have to IRL. And it became so important to me because then I didn't want to be fake and I didn't want to be phoney and I didn't want people to say amen. She's really confident from behind and I hate I hate the BS I hate the back and forth and living a double life. I don't know how to do that anyways, because I'm just so me that I don't know how to not say the truth. And I know people find that really hard about me, because I'm very honest, and I am positive but I'm honest. And I think a lot of people have a hard time also and people can can smell the phoney can smell the fake and I just came to one of those podcasts moment. It could have been Myles Munroe as I'm thinking about it, I could be wrong, or maybe another book of encouragement. And it just came to that point where, okay, I need to walk in this. So what do I need to do? So I started asking people that I trusted at the moment, I was leading a group of women, about 150 women, or so I was just I was just doing like administrative work bringing conference speakers in setting things up for for planning ahead. And that way I was leading other people, right. But one of the conference speakers, she was talking about walking in your truth, and I'm walking in that clarity of mine, where whatever comes your way, it's not going to shake you, whatever comes at you is not going to shake you. Well guess what my insecurities were shaking me to the core. And I think I was about 2520, something like that. When I feel like it started shifting, but it was in the later years, like in a few years ago, maybe four years ago, where it shaped me to the core where I didn't want to do this battle, this dance that you always have with insecurity, I just want to let it go just like they're always going to come, they're always going to jump at you. I just have to decide how I'm going to respond at them. And it was in this conversation that I was listening to one of the speakers talk about insecurities and how women, you know, we deal with things differently. Because we're always trying to resolve and look out for others. And we're more involved in trying to help others. And so I was like, I want to come across honest and pure hearted and truthful and and sometimes we don't because of insecurities. We don't know how people are taking what we say or what we do. And I translated that into my art. And that was so important because I gave me a sort of confidence that I didn't walk in earlier on earlier in my creative days. And I felt like that was so important. And I can't pinpoint the moment or the time but I remember that certain conversations that I've heard podcasts, books, they all kind of started compiling into like, this moment inside of me like I was done battling. And I still battle with it, but I feel like I confronted differently where it doesn't like weaken me where I stop. And that's what was happening early on where it would, it would be so negative that I just I would just feel like no, I can't. I don't want to shoot that. I don't want to know. And then it became like no, I have to fake it till you make it you have to then okay push me you get you get to push past certain. And then I have people around me surrounding me encouraging me loving on me. And then my husband obviously pushing me forward and say you you got this you can do this, what you're gonna shoot for so itself, man, you got this, you're gonna be great. They're gonna love you. And they did. And it was amazing. And, and I just feel like those moments were transformative. But it started with me learning. It started with me listening to podcasts, reading books, listening to other speakers that search that inner search. It starts with your inner search and how you are going to confront that and come out on the other side. It really has to do with some inner work kind of you know, and know that you're ever going to get over it but you're going to handle it differently. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  35:01  That is great, thanks for sharing that, you know, I think it's really cool that you say, you know, you start off with, fake it till you make it and then you end up with walking in your truth. Because I think at the end of the day, if you keep faking it, and you don't really believe in it, then it's not going to change you. And that's, that's really inspiring to hear that, you know, as well as you know, it's really cool that you have a partner who's really as well as a family who's really encouraging about your journey, because, you know, I could definitely see how you translate what they've given you in terms of words of encouragement, you know, believing in, in your, in who you are, and you're you as an artist, and you translate that to someone else, you know, whether it's through Twitter or clubhouse, I can always see that from you. And that is really incredibly amazing to be able to see that. And so one of the thing that I noticed is that, you know, you see that when you first started photography, your your husband would just send you up to classes, and you would sign up to a lot of online classes and stuff like that. And I it's actually one of the thing that I wish I had them when he started, I was I was too cheap. And I was too confident, or I should say arrogant to feel like I could just do this by myself. And you know, if I can make this happen myself, which I ended up did, but it took a really long time, right? Because I have to go through all the different trials and error myself and you know, try different things. But how, how important is that for you? To this this classes that you've taken? How important is that to you and your your growth as an artist as a photographer? And do you think that you know, the money or the investment that you have spent in that have been worth it? And you know, have you been able to shortcut your journey to be able to get to where you want to be to those classes. Abrahanny Rodriguez  37:20  I think that's really interesting, I find education is very important, I find that definitely shorten the, the way you get to that ends, right? If someone else can help you in that process, you're gonna get there quicker. I believe that definitely a lot of people have done what you're saying, where you tread it on on your own, and they've done phenomenal, but they've taken a longer period of time, because they were alone. Now, again, I'm all about people. So even if the class that I'm attending at the beginning, a lot of the class that I was attending, we're all learning I was writing, I was in it, I was, and I wasn't participating, like hands up. And let me try it. It was more like, oh my god, I just learned all of this. Oh, my gosh, that is so cool. And then it was reiterating it that made it more mind like that base and foundation was me applying it. And I did early on with my children, I will take their photos, and I will try different things with them. Which is so cool, because then we have photos of them young. But um, the other side I was looking at as practice, like the next time I'm in a different class, I'm going to show up prepared, you know, and so I was very hungry. And I think that that's different for a lot of people, if you show up hungry, you're gonna learn a lot quicker because you want it the type of photography that I do nowadays, I've met a lot of people that do still photography, but it's different than events, events is very fast paced, lights are changing, you have to know your craft. Because the elements are is going to be element of surprise almost every time. And the last minute you're going to get an itinerary. And then temporary change or something is going to you know, or you don't get it until you show up. They're like, yeah, just shoot, do your thing. And you're like, what's happening? What's going on what's first and what's last, you know, those sorts of things, and you have to know your crap, because you can just wing that and be great at it and they're not going to invite you back in then you're going to wonder why it's because you need it to be good at this before you got there. You know, and so I feel like that has helped me a lot. And it's put me in positions and places to be able to manoeuvre through hard difficult, I guess schedules or difficult moments and then you're like, oh, no, I can't finish this without X, Y and Z, you know? And so I feel like all those lessons all those taught me how to get out of a pinch, right get out of a hard situation. Because I learned my craft early on or I practice and I thought honing in. But then I now can be creative because I know the basic. And I tell this to my son, I actually had this conversation with my son a couple of weeks ago. And then again, before he left to Florida, which he left the day, I mean yesterday, but you can be creative with a soccer ball. If you don't know the basic, you're gonna be struggling with the basic, and my son plays phenomenal. But he has this competition, it's the same with photography, we can be phenomenal. But if we don't know the basic, we can just be thrown in any situation and be creative, because we're going to be struggling with the basic. And I think that for me is so important. And if I can leave you with that tip bit like Han in your basic because then you can be creative with everything else in any situation that you're pushed through. Or if you have two seconds to do one photo, it's gonna come out not because you were phenomenal, but because you knew your basic, and then you were created, and then it came up phenomenal. I've had that happen many times when you're on a video shoot, and then they're like, you have 10 minutes to photograph alone without the video. Make something great because we need a cover photo. And it's like, Oh, okay. And then and then you do it. You can, you know, I know the basic opposing I know the basic of all my stuff. So I just like okay, here we go. And even if it wasn't like, wow, the best and I've always come back like oh my gosh, I could have done I should have done. But then I look back and I think it was good because I knew my basic and I can be thrown in these like, you know situations, because I honed in that craft early on learning through other people. Now when I go to some creative classes now. I'm all in it. For the people. I'm like meeting people in real life. Listen, oh, my clubhouse friends, we kind of all say, listen, we're all gonna go to friends, we're gonna do this. And we did. And some of them had to fall out because of COVID situations or whatever. But most of us that that went had a great time, mainly because we were there to be with each other and have fun. And maybe we were there to learn specifically, but we were there to create. And I think that that's also an opportunity when you do these classes in real life or photography workshops in real life, you're there to create. And so you just, you know, there's always an opportunity to learn and grow with others. So that's what I had to say, workshops. I love it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  42:32  That's awesome. Yeah, I mean, like, you know, it's true that, you know, we all this always it can. My mentor, my mentor used to say, well, we probably still saying it, but when he said was, it can always be better, right? But it's, you know, sometimes it just doesn't need to, and it's interesting how you say, you could have, you know, we can always we often we think about how I could have done that we should have done that. But at the end of the day, what you have is, if it's good enough, it's good enough, and you know, you've got to add yourself in the back, instead of, you know, punish yourself for not being able to capture those things. Because at the end of the day, we're only human right. So I think that's really awesome for you to share that journey. And I totally agree with you on classes, you know, now I'm just like, not just gonna go to find someone who can teach me how to do things that I want to learn, instead of, you know, looking at the YouTube or stuff like that, if I could, because it wouldn't shortcut my journey in short cut. And you know, sometimes some of those things that you learn, you might never ever find out on your own as well. So, yeah, it's, it's really cool that you like to read that you like to learn love to go to workshop, and it shows how, you know, it shows on your development as a person as as a photographer. So that's, that's amazing. So, you know, after all these years, you've taken a whole lot of photos, do you have any photo or any moment that you could think of that? Is that you could say one of the proudest moment or proudest photograph that you've ever taken? Abrahanny Rodriguez  44:22  That's a hard question. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  44:24  I like to ask hard questions. Abrahanny Rodriguez  44:27  A hard one. Um, yeah. I feel like I've had the opportunity to work with so many people that I've admire as artists or partner with other photographers that I've admired and and get to meet them in person. And so I just feel like I'm proud of the moment that got me there. And then for sure, if and I just have like, certain shots in my head that I'm just like, I don't remember where it took it, but it's just like so proud of like a concert. moment, for sure, like a big highlight was the shooting at Times Square. I'm from New York now living in Texas. And so to get invited to shoot a concert, in Times Square was just like a big highlight with people that I love and admire who've I've listened to their music for years. Now invite me and my husband, my husband and I to go and photograph their conference. And I wasn't the only photographer, but I was the trusted one that they needed photos right away for the publishing and things like that. And so I had to be more like onpoint everyone else that was there, just kind of like, hey, yeah, we would love to be a part of that. Yeah, shoot for free. Oh, yeah. Then you get Yeah, like, but I was like, this is media related. This is, you know, whatever. So, um, funny story is that most of the images that they capture, and they were all putting it in one hard drive, and they were travelling the next day to what they mana are the creative people that flew in for that. And I wouldn't not allow them to have my images like that, like melodies or raw our way to, you know, wait till they edit, you know, they lost some of the, in the process of gathering so much things that they brought into the square, they had to take back. They kind of like, misplace some stuff at the moment. And they needed it for publication and Mexico right away. So they were like, Hey, can you and I was like on the plane? Like, yes, I can add it. Yeah, I'll give it to you as soon as on that, like, one of those things. But my proudest moment was to shoot at Times Square, I don't care what it was, it could have been an individual image for one person, it could have been a portrait with the square on the at the moment, I didn't care. I was just so excited to shoot at the square. And it was just such an honour. Yeah, I'm just like, you know, those those moments are proud moment for sure. And then I had another opportunity to shoot for the Dallas at the Cowboys Stadium, Dallas Cowboys Stadium, not related to the Cowboys, but they had their mascot come out and all this stuff. I just thought, oh my gosh, this is so cool. I shot there before. But this particular event, we were interacting with some of these characters and people that I see on screen, I'm just like, oh my god, this is so cool. And so I made like on my on my tic tac, a little reel of him dancing that mascot dancing with the people that were there. And it was just so special. And so I feel like I'm I feel very blessed and honoured that I've met. Through my creativity I have met and made some really cool friends that have allowed me to come and join them. And they're fun in their creative moments. And so I'm very proud of Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  47:51  that. That is really cool. You know, I I love meeting people. I think, you know, one of the things that I wasn't in it for that when I first started but now it kind of the things that got me really love what I'm doing as a photographer is meeting new people and meeting new creative and going on trips with them and, you know, sharing different shots and how they, they are different than the different perspective and how people are thinking differently. And I think that's really cool. So I totally agree with you. And, you know, Time Square is such an awesome place. I haven't been there probably when I was like 12 or something like that. Definitely me to come back so I could see why couldn't be you know, your proudest moment or to shoot? Abrahanny Rodriguez  48:41  Well, Madison Square Garden. I just kept pulling it. This is the Madison Square Garden. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  48:47  The Madison Square Garden. Okay, right. Yeah. So, anyway, thanks a lot for your time and we're coming to the one hour mark. So you know, there is this question that I always asked my, my guests, which is if there is one advice, whether it's photography or live advice that you could share to the audience who are listening right now, what would that Abrahanny Rodriguez  49:12  I find? We talked a little bit about this earlier about insecurity. But if I can leave you with a tidbit that insecurities are gonna come and go And if we keep push past it, find people that are going to be supportive of you in your art so that you're not alone in your thoughts. So don't be alone in your thoughts. Don't let insecurity stop you. They're gonna come and go have a positive outlook and have someone that speaks into you. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:00:06  What a great advice. You know, it took me a long time to realise that I actually took Tony Robbins seminar. But a few months ago and I was I realised how important our thoughts are and I realised how negative we are often are to ourselves. You know, we don't usually let other people be negative to us, but we do it to ourselves. It's kind of ironic. That is such a great advice to share. You know, I wish I'd known that a lot sooner. But yeah, that's the thanks a lot for sharing that and you know that you've been really good inspiration. I love how you share your story. I love your energy. And I'm sure the audience too. How can they learn more about you and you know, and see more of your photograph. Other than Abrahanny Rodriguez  1:01:01  and thank you so much for letting me share and so grateful. You can always find me on Twitter, at Abraham Johnny AR or Abraham any dot eat I feel like you can search it and you'll find me April hunting My name is comes up on Instagram. I'm Abraham, honey, just my name, my first name. On Facebook, you can find Abraham photography or just Abraham Rodriguez I have both personal and business on Tik Tok. It's also just my name. So I feel like most places, if you just search my name, you're gonna find a wealth of information about me. My website is Abraham needs.com. So you can find some of the things that I've done on there as well for my client work. But yeah, use my name and do probably find me I'm very, my name is so unique. It's gonna stand out. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:01:56  That's fantastic. All right, well, thanks to all Abra honey for being part of the podcast and being guests and sharing all this knowledge as well as wisdom. We get the hunters, hopefully you find great jam, a lot of great nuggets in there. And hopefully you find inspiration and also listen to some of Abraham any advice that you know she has gone through this process. So why try to figure out on your own when you can, you know, learn from someone who have gone through it. So I definitely recommend you to check out her work work are fantastic. She got beautiful gallery on Instagram, as well as Twitter sees very uplifting, so don't forget to you know, follow her as well as check out her and nifty collection. about centering is that yeah, it's about centering centering. I was just thinking about where that places but yeah, it's absolutely beautiful. Makes me want to go there for sure. But if you haven't, I Abrahanny Rodriguez  1:03:06  want to say thank you, family, I want to say thank you for having me. Thank you for your time and this kind interview. I actually I think you are very inspirational. And you're artists and creative that it draws people to know how in the heck did he capture this? I think you're so inspirational. And you're always very encouraging. And you've been a very good friend to me. So I just want to say thank you. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:03:31  Oh, that is very sweet. Thank you very much, um, ever any and, you know, it's it's been something that got me started in photography is to be able to capture a unique perspective of the world. So I always try to think, how to create something that's totally different that you know, people just like, would How did that happen? So it doesn't always translate to every photograph that I captured. But I'm glad that you know you notice that. So I appreciate that. Thank you. All right, well, we count as don't forget to hit the subscribe button so you can listen to next guests in the next conversation that we have. But with that, thank you very much for being here. Thank you very much for tuning in. And I'll see you guys next week.  

Hey Wicked Hunters,  Welcome back to The Art of Photography Podcast, this week we have one of the most respected travel photographers joining us. He was one of the first photographers in this space. Daniel started his journey as a photographer back when he was still a PhD student. It took him 8-10 years until he could pursue his passion in photography full time. Since then he has become one of the most respected travel, landscape and adventure photographers. He has taught thousands of students and he’s an official Nikon, Gitzo and Lucroit ambassador. He has been published in many magazines such as National Geographic, Digital SLR Magazine, etc. His photos were purchased by leading worldwide brands like Apple, RedBull, HSBC, etc.   If you want to learn more about Daniel's work, you can find it here: Link to social media: https://www.instagram.com/Danielkordan/ https://twitter.com/daniel_kordan https://danielkordan.com/  Link to NFT https://opensea.io/collection/red-sails    Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: • Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify   • Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography   • Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr   • Website: https://podcast.thewickedhunt.com      • Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr     For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography by Stanley Aryanto: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/    • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/  • Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com      • Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/   Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation. It would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.  ---------------------------- Transcription: Daniel Kordan  0:00  This is how you can build your own style. And this is how you can learn in a really fast way. Because the process that I undertake, it took me about eight years to 10 years Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:20  Hey wiki hunters Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast where we share photographers journey and passion and how photography gives them hope represent happiness. And today we have someone very special to be part of this podcast, someone who have done this for a long, long time and have been an inspiration to my journey as well. Daniel Corden, how are you Daniel, welcome to Bali. I know you just settling in here in in the island of gods. But very good to have you in the island. How are you? Yeah, hey, Daniel Kordan  0:53  Stanley, good actually settled already getting used to live in Bali in the tropics, and continue exploring Indonesia. I was here first time in 2019. And I really loved it here and the family loved it here. Well, it's the sun, the ocean, and so many beautiful places like almost 17 plus 1000 islands in Indonesia. So I have to explore lots of them and exploring Southeast Asia in general, it was a long lasting dream for me as well, because I covered a lot Europe and America but in Asia is still a lot to explore it a photograph. So I think it's a good base for me for coming here, at least for my nomadic life supplants the here for one year. And yeah, to inspire you more with some photos from Indonesia, and well, Southeast Asia in general. Yeah, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:47  I mean, I saw some of your brothers from the island already. And, you know, around in Asia, and, you know, you covered it very quickly. So, you know, that's, that's awesome to see some of those places to be taken by someone like you with a different perspective. It's always refreshing. So you've been in this industry a very long time, you know, but what really started your journey, have you always been wanted to be a photographer? Or is there a story behind that? Daniel Kordan  2:19  Well, of course, there is always a story behind some long way. And the story for me started, of course, with my house in my neighbourhood, I think most of photographers, they do the same, they just start exploring from the backyard, in general. Yeah, they go to the forest, they go to the mountains, whatever they have near their house. And this is how I started, when I was 17 years old, 17, maybe 16 years old, that was just wandering in the wild in nature. I was a grown up in Russia in Moscow region. So it was beautiful forests and beautiful lakes. It was a nice playground. So it was just taught by myself or photography. I was also attending the painting school at the time when I was a student. And I guess it's helped us a lot to just understand the colour with colour management in photography later as well to be bold with colours not to be afraid to use some colours and editing in my landscapes and travel photography as well. So I guess many photographers will do the same they just start with a backyard start practising and then they build career build portfolio and start travelling outside as well. Yep, yeah, so Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  3:33  it's actually very different for me i i started photography because of travels it's actually land away from my home that got me started. So that's really interesting. And you know, like that the back back, your back your own backyard inspired to be a photographer because most people take that for granted. So I think that's really cool. Was there like a particular moment within you know that that time where you feel you know that photography makes you happy? And you know, you want to do that for longer? Or is it just you know, you just kind of know ever since you started photography, like I know you share a little bit about exploring the backyard but how do you start photography itself? Daniel Kordan  4:18  Well, it's always kind of struggle of course, because the first steps will make you can't really earn your photography more like investors so you buying new cameras buying the gear you just investing in the in the flight so just yeah, go somewhere. Yes, the first steps. You basically spend more money than you're earning on photography say it was always just a hobby, a passion for me, and it's still a hobby, passion, I can even now I can tell that it's kind of professional or it becomes like a routine work. And also it's still a passion until now and well there was a certain moment when I started earning a little bit on photography, but more was more Some commercial projects like portrait studio, maybe even some wedding. So how was this, like mark on my history with wedding photography as well. So it was just the student and earning some money, but that give me some good practice, how to choose all the settings, compositions help edit images just was really, really good practice for me. But yep, slowly, I started organising some workshops around the world and was one of the first persons who actually make the workshops were just it was not mainstream at all. We just knew all the people actually who make workshops, photography workshops that time. So it was around 11 years ago, 11 or 10 years. Now there are just literally 1000s of people and influencers who are making this. But since then, it's grown up in a huge business. I'm partnering with Iceland photo tours with my good friend UDB Gorski and we have about 45 destinations in our portfolio. So before pandemic, we had about 4000 clients per year, so 4000 photographers per year joining our photography tours, but pandemic hit. And then we change the bit the things I make online courses, online education. So now I have 16,000 students in my online courses. So it's also grown up quite a lot when people join the metaverse and joined online courses. So who knows? Where next year this year will take us but Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  6:36  we'll see that that's awesome. Wow, that's a lot of students. You've taught a lot of people that's that's crazy. You know, it's, I mean, this just goes to show you know, how, how great and how much people love your photography and how inspiring they are. It is, you know, otherwise, there won't be that many people following your footsteps, you know, as far as being inspired by your photography, what do you love the most about photography, in general, or in landscape photography. And actually, I forgot to say, I would love to see your wedding for like wedding photography, photos Daniel Kordan  7:16  on the website and everything, but I can try to dig specially for you, if you come to mandolin Valley, I will show you in private, you know. Just kidding. But I can try to find, if you surely want wanted, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  7:32  I can imagine, you know, because every time I see that, even when you should landscape, a lot of them are very intimate landscape, you know, very clean. People in human figure, you have some of those as well. But yeah, so it'd be interesting, I would love to see them Daniel Kordan  7:50  actually build quite a big business on that. Because I was doing that for like three or four years. And last years, I was shooting weddings in France and Italy. So when I was like 20 to 23 years old, I was still in university on my PhD and was just sneaking out, like France to the wedding to shoot for like four or 5000 bucks. It was a good addition, though. My salary as a PhD student at around $200 per month. Really fine. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  8:21  So what makes you love photography? You know, if there is, is there a one thing that makes you love photography? Or is there a lot of things that make you fall in love with photography in general? Daniel Kordan  8:31  Well, in general, what I like about photography and landscape in particular is the people. So you can ask me why people in landscape? Yeah, but it's the people who are joining my workshops, the people who I meet, while we talk with you right now. So we also kind of inspiring each other, right? So it's a community of people that just come together. There's not just, I can myself a lonely wolf now it's just like, I'm making fun for myself. All the time, I'm turning entertaining myself and the people around and educating them as well. So you always meet with some amazing people and you have something in common. You have in common the passion to the nature to photography compositions. So this is what I love about landscape. It's just inspiring each other. Yeah. That's awesome. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  9:19  Yeah, I mean, like, you know, if I didn't come across your profile back then I might not be where I am today. So you definitely have inspired, you know, other photographer. So, you know, you've been to a lot of places in the world, right? Have you have you ever counted how many how many countries have you ever been Daniel Kordan  9:40  really not counting countries, but I have favourite places that I return all the time, like Indonesia, right? Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  9:51  Like is there like you know, any particular place that really hits home and keep taking you back to those place? Daniel Kordan  10:03  There are so many of them. But there are a few places in particular that really return every year. It's like Patagonia or Greenland or Antarctica. So all of this replaces, it's something that may be part of my soul, my heart is left there. And while always taking workshops, this places like Italy, Tuscany as well. I love it a lot just because you feel amazing there, because landscape is always beautiful. Or you always struggle in Patagonia with the conditions. But eventually you just get rewarded by just some fantastic lenticular clouds and flying skies and, I don't know, beautiful Puma or going like as in the frame against the mountains. And the same from Greenland. And we didn't want we developed absolutely amazing tour with Red Sails, Red Sails in Greenland, and become kind of viral. It just it's one of my most favourite tourism portfolio. Let's say this summer, we sell ready 16 tours 16 tours from June to September, they're fully booked. We just started accepting people for next year. But that's pretty much 16 tours per 16 people each tour. So that's more than 250 people this summer, I need to guide some of them. And we already have some guides for workshops. In late August, September. I just, I can't just guide all of them myself. But we have local guides and some good friends that help us a lot. Educating people in the stores as well. But it's really romantic when you have read sales and you just going among all the icebergs and midnight sun, the sun just never sets there and just throws from horizon for like, five, six hours. So it can imagine like six hours nonstop with the flaming skies. Reflections of the iceberg some whales and seals on the ice. It's pretty incredible place just can go there forever. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  12:06  That is amazing. You know, and just you explaining it. I know you have a collection that I have checked out your NFT collection on the Red Sails, and they're just so breathtaking. But you know, just listen that listening to that. It's so Sunday already breathtaking without looking at that photo. But yeah, I highly encourage those who listen, you know, to check out his NFT collection on open sea and on the Red Sails, and the link will be on the description. It's just absolutely incredible. How does how does that come about? Is it is it is the other boat? If you have like two kinds of boats, or is it most of the boats there have Red Sails or how does that work? And yeah, yeah, this Daniel Kordan  12:49  boats, they belong to the tour company. So these are all boats, basically. And we're using to sailing boats and make specifically for them. Red Sails, and well, just bringing them for every season for every summer. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  13:05  And it's cool. Yeah, so you know great Greenland is actually one of my top bucket lists to go to I really want to export the Greenland sound so amazing. So you've been to a lot of these places multiple times, right? Like you say, Patagonia, you go there almost every year while you save every year as well as the other two places. You know, when you go to the same place over and over again, it can be kind of really like boring and you know, you feel like you know it all and doesn't excite you anymore, because it's predictable, you know what's going to happen, but I feel like every time you you take a photo of those new places or I should say of those old places that you've been to you manage to come up with something different something unique, something fresh, something exciting, how how does take us through how do you come up with that you know, so that people who are photographers who kind of feel like they've been to this place over and over again and get bored with it can get inspired and learn from what you've done as well as what you do in travel photography. Daniel Kordan  14:20  Well, first of all, you're completely right that let's see if you go to the same place and make let's say workshop after workshop, it's also becomes quite boring. Like I just decided for myself, I will not go myself myself to the places but I will just put my guides or local photography guides who can take people in the company so you just don't need to be caught on the hook. You know, you got like a fish and you just keep doing the kinds of job so it becomes more like not using passion yeah becomes like office work. Let's see. I love like example Am I love to a lot Provence in France for the first visit, but already the second, the third visit in Provence, it's the same conditions as the blue sky, the same blue sky, the same lavender fields, the same like hordes of tourists in the fields, and becomes really boring. So I just decided, okay, we'll just we'll go there. Yeah, so I'm going to the places where conditions are always different. Let's say this way, I'm going to Greenland to Patagonia. Because every time you go there, conditions are totally different. And Patagonia, you have all these lenticular clouds, they have storms, and the light is really, really different all the time. And you're just adapting to changing the light. And this challenging, so without any challenges, it becomes quite boring, as well. So you're hunting for the light. It may be it's the same compositions that you've seen already the previous visit, but the light may be different, and conditions different. Yeah, also, how not to lose passion in this work. Basically, I tried to make, let's say, one workshop, and after workshop, there will be exploration. So let's say I make one week of education, because during workshops, I just barely have time for myself, I'm always with people, just communicating with them. And another week after workshop might be exploration of some new places around this area. Let's say, next year, I can go to Patagonia, I can guide some workshops. And after that, I go to Patagonian fjords to the other side of Torresdale. Pine, and say, Yeah, so it's a new place for me new area, and just excited to explore it. So all this keeps, keeps me excited as well. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  16:45  So, you know, you you take you do workshops, you do online course, and you also do exploration. And you've just, by the way, congratulations on your new board. And if you have kids and family, how do you find the time and balance all that? And I know as a photographer as well, you know, that's not it, right? You still have to do all your accounting or your other marketing, social media. So how do you find all that and have time for each single one of them? Daniel Kordan  17:17  Yeah, it's just all about balancing, as you mentioned, this word balance, right. So let's say I can go for two or three weeks outside, and some other workshops and other exploration. And then I spend the same time with family like two or three weeks, with family. But this is kind of quality time. So you know, just outside in the office and just come tired, exhausted in the evening. But it's a quality time. So you go hanging out somewhere, you just playing some games. So this, this is much better than actually having the permanent job and coming back absolutely exhausted, of the office work. So this is how it is it is trying to balance the whole year. And I can put myself my time. So I'm the owner of my time. So there is no one just head of me telling me okay, you must work two or three months, nonstop, you must go for three months out there. So I can easily just check my calendar and book all the next year, just very carefully balancing week by week, day by day, where I'm going how much time staying back at home with family. And yeah, it's all about balance, like the same with composition of photography, the same as your composition of your Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  18:30  life. That's awesome. Yeah, I love how you draw, you know, metaphor to photography, because I feel like you know, from photography days, a lot of life lessons. So you know, one of the things that I learned from photography is being able to have a pay out passions, patients, I should say no. As well as patient, of course. But yeah, it's cool. That balance is something that's really difficult to find, and you seem to be doing very well. So before you started photography, you mentioned you were a student as well. And you're studying PhD as well. What what what were they on? What were you studying to become before photography? Daniel Kordan  19:10  Yeah, so before photography, I was studied physics, actually. And I was studied quantum physics, in particular, in my university in Moscow. So I actually didn't finish the PhD. So on the third year, already, I was doing a lot of photography, a lot of commercial projects and had a family. So it just didn't work out for me to finish it because it's some complications in Russia about the science. It's just people didn't pay paid. They're not paid enough to sustain the living. So you have the choice either you making some business or you just going out of the country in Switzerland, USA, and it was hard with already little kids at the moment. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  19:57  Wow, that's that's really interesting to see fit. agraphia is not really, you know, a job that people think you know, would jump into to make a living, because it is a difficult way to make a living. What made you decide to, you know, do that full time instead of sticking with your PhD, Daniel Kordan  20:18  that was not really a decision in one day like this, I was slowly going to this point where I can abandon the work the job that I do, I have some small businesses like in website design, and website programming as well, that helped me a bit to invest in photography, as well. But at a certain moment, I just see that I had portfolio already, I had some workshops going on, and they started bringing more money. So I just see it and decided to make a little bit more workshops, and in adding a little bit more tours every year. And well, this is how I started building all the workshop portfolio. This is how I started to make it full time. But at first stage, I guess for most of us, it will be really challenging and hard to earn on photography, it just needs to keep trying. And there are many possibilities. Now. It's not like it was 10 years ago without social media, then now we have online education have NF T's you have work with brands, hotels, with air companies, whatever. So now possibilities that they're just much, much better than it was 10 years ago in photography. But still there is a lot of competition, like good competition as well with young travellers, young people who are willing to travel, so just need to be very active. And well keep it going keep it running every day. That's it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  21:46  Yeah. I love how you mentioned that. Because I know a lot of people can ask me, you know, it's like, how do you do this? I was like, man, there's literally so many ways to make a living, you know, be just travelling or being a photographer. It's just a matter of which one you want to do. So I'm glad that you mentioned that, because I think that that is a confirmation for a lot of people that it's possible to do this. So that's really cool. And you know how this this journey that you had so far, what would be the hardest time of your journey? Is there a time where you felt like you want to give up and you know, you want to either go back to your physics degree or try something else at all? Daniel Kordan  22:34  Well, of course, there are some ups and downs like for all the people. And there are many in my career as well. Because sometimes, you just travelled for moms, and you get so exhausted. And then there are crazy times like pandemic or nowadays a war between Russia and Ukraine. And well, I was living in Russia and needed basically to abandon my country, we still have the dog there in my house. And well back grandparents are still looking for our animals, the dog, the cat, and we're thinking how to move them as well to barley, but in some terrible things going on in the world, as well. And sometimes it's just sad to think about these things, but you can do, you can do much you can help me be I have some also, some charity projects, as well, it was a few years ago, it was about climate change, but also have campaign prints for the planet, also where we donated for growing, growing up the trees, as well. And now also have some empty project for the help there Ukrainian refuges, as well. So just trying to help little by little to the world as well, maybe just a small drop in the ocean. But if everyone will make a small drop, maybe we'll bring the water back again. Yeah, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  24:03  totally. I love how you say that. I know, a lot of people can say, you know, someone else can do it for me. But you're right. You know, if everyone just give a little bit of drop in, you know, it will make a lot more difference. So, I'm glad that you say that, and I'm sorry, you have to go through that. But it's really good that you are giving back to the community as well as to the world with your successes. So you know, I think that's, that's that's a really good thing to see from someone who made that you're who who already become successful in what you do. So that's, that's really cool. And all right, this, this might be really hard for you because I'm sure you have a lot of successes. If there was one moment of your journey that you're most proud of, what would that be and why? Daniel Kordan  24:56  We'll hold it I think from the beginning There are a lot of moments like this when you're just starting photography, because even, let's say I remember my first kind of salary for my first photo shoot, I was shooting some concerts in university and organisers, they presented me a cake. So I was so happy, I get paid by the cake. Yeah, for this job. And then they're just the first image that you actually sell for money. And then the first contract you get for some bigger project. And then the thing that really makes me happy. Also, it's the first international, one of the first actual international job because Apple bought some of my images for MacBook Pro presentations and desktops are still I was out in USA and I see my image on every billboard, when Apple just released the new MacBook Pro, it was like 2015 or so. So about nine years ago, so I it was just kind of big achievement, then I don't do much of the photography competitions, myself, just don't have much time for that. But I feel really proud of my students right now. Because there are a lot of people visiting my workshops, and I see their success. And it really makes me happy. Let's say some person can be just some office worker, and maybe some banking. And then he visits workshop got inspired and changed his life. So I already have a few students guiding workshops and blending some amazing deals, so they quit their job. And well, they do what they love to do now, photography and also guiding also educating people. So I'm really proud of this people. Also lots of students that make some exhibitions as well, some charity exhibitions in London and New York, New York recently, so it was very nice. They're proud of them Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  27:01  at a scale that is really cool. I think that's the one thing that I really love about teaching others is when they can, you know, succeed and get inspired by you. And you know, I mean, your photography are just such an inspiration. Like, every time I look at your photo, right, I would try to dissect it, and I would go like, Man, I wouldn't have thought, you know, you seeing that grass that just looked like a bush that's, you know, annoyed the hell out of me as a foregone. And I was just like, how did you make that look good, you make the simplest thing look good. And that's just incredible. Is there any photography workflow, when you know when you when you go explore, right, you don't really know what your, what's going to come up in front of you. Is there any workflow or, like you know, things that you go through when you try to compress your photography. Daniel Kordan  28:03  The main tip I can give here is, when you're at location, you just need to look under your feet. So you already have some amazing landscape. Let's say it can be waterfall, it can be an amount Brahma is in Java, but then okay, you can make this postcard without any foregrounds without this three dimensional thing, but it makes a difference if you just frame it with some really stunning three dimensional and interesting foreground. And as you say, It must not be called Ticket must be simple, must be easily readable. That's why I'm trying to get a bit closer to the foreground. Let's say it might be some flowers might the leaves may be some just bullsh of grass, but you must be really close to that object on the foreground. Sometimes I'm just as close as about 3040 centimetres even closer. And this helps to simplify the composition as well because you're not including let's say the whole bush of flowers like hundreds of flowers, but you come there you look carefully you find like three five flowers maybe just one flower. Yeah, and be really close to them. This is how you compose Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  29:11  Yeah, I definitely mean level one. I definitely learned that a lot from watching you you know your photography and you know that forgotten just managed to find the coolest foreground so that's that's really cool to hear from you as an instructor and when you looking at the you know the photography and you say get really close. Does that mean you really like a wide angle lens and you do a lot of focus stacking on your ship on your photography. Daniel Kordan  29:42  Yeah, I do a lot of focus stacking and a lot of wide angle but of course I'm just taking with me all the three lenses I have with switching 2424 710 So Instagram it sometimes you also need to be like director of the movie right? Not just the way the angles things but some details. So mole nature buttons. And it's kind of boring goals if you have the same just wide angle shots everywhere, but you also need to just concentrate on details small things. And then drone photography is my passion as well. I just got myself on the road that maybe 30 to 40% of my portfolio now is made with a drone. It's just another dimension, especially in Indonesia, it's like paradise for the drone rules. Very easy here. I can fly almost everywhere in Indonesia. So I'm using a DJI Mavic pre cine combo for my flights already. I'm pretty happy with it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  30:39  In Asia is definitely the drone paradise. I remember when I left Indonesia, I just sold my drone coming to Canada, it's just too difficult. Yes, yeah. So you've got a lot of gear, you know, with just mentioned about four lenses, a body and a drone? How do you prioritise what you bring on your back? Or do you always have a massive back on your back? Daniel Kordan  31:06  To always, that's a big problem. This is my cross I'm carrying through all these years. It has nothing to do even switching to mirrorless. Two years ago, I didn't help much because the weight is pretty much the same as it was before. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  31:20  Yeah. Is that right? Yeah, I know that feeling because I've never hiked Well, I think there's only one hike, which is my very first fight before I got into photography, not actually even that I'd never hiked without a camera and you know, massive bag, so I know exactly what you mean. That's yeah, it's it is. It's a good workout, though. For us. Going forward, what are you know, what are your project? Or do you have any project or any exploration that you want to do coming forward? Is there anything that are on top of your bucket list? Yeah, in Daniel Kordan  32:03  particular, I moved to Indonesia. This like a paradise for me as well. So I'm planning to explore Southeast Asia. There are a lot of countries I've never been to like Vietnam or Thailand. I've been there like family vacations. But let's say for photography, I've never been to Vietnam, Thailand. I've never been to Australia, as well for landscape photography. And well, blank from Belize. It's really easy to all of these countries, even flying to India or Pakistan. It's Japan it's relatively easy. From the side of the world. So this is where I'm I will try to concentrate on the next year. And Indonesia itself is like so many islands Yeah, so many places the sea to explore. Just after tomorrow, I'm actually going for two day trip to lampoon shortcut Guinea here, and the sharks of beach, because it will be also pretty amazing. No two way out there. So next two days will be normal in the night, and we'll try to shoot both sunset sunrise in the Milky Way the Shakti fish. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  33:09  That's awesome. Yeah. lampoon, I actually never been there myself. So that's, that's really cool. What What are your, you know, workflow on finding these places? Is there any particular things that you look or that excites you to go to those places? Because you know, lampoon might be beautiful, but I'm sure there's going to be a whole lot other places that just like lampoon that's beautiful, as well. What would make you choose some of these places that we go for exploration? Daniel Kordan  33:41  Well, let's kind of some places that kind of epic. Yeah, so I feel like edu lampoon, they offering a lot of compositions, and just, the result might be quite amazing. But it's nice question about where the inspiration comes from yet to make a choice. And most of the inspiration comes from local photographers. So you just what they do is just sign up for local photographers, and which they feed and trying to communicate with them make friends. Let's see. I went already in Denpasar a few times just to meet and hang out with local photography community. Well, they kind of let's say spoiled with the photography in Bali, but they can always suggest some new places some different places outside. So when you talk to them, you they show some locations, places that can suggest you some local drivers. And this is also how our workshops working so we're not just kind of aliens in in totally different world. Yeah, but I'm trying to hire, always hire local photographers, local drivers, local guides, so giving also back to photography, local photography community and involving them in the work with international clients as well. So I think it's kind of good ideas better idea than that. just inviting photographers from Europe, USA to guide in Bali. So let's say my workshops in June, in Indonesia, there will be also just with local guides, local licenced divers, so everything is kind of official and just giving people well needed job after the pandemic Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  35:19  salutely I think that's really awesome that you did that, or doing that. Because, you know, a lot of times, the local community doesn't really get a lot of from that, you know, from the tours and stuff. So I think it's really cool that you give that job opportunities to this local people, especially in places like Bali, where you know, it's been hit really hard. So, you did a lot of workshop in I mean, you know, what, one of your main stream of income is workshop? I assume, I assume, is that correct? Daniel Kordan  35:59  Well, it depends, because you need to be like a Swiss knife, man. And your income just comes from different things like workshops, and online education, then also work with brands as brand ambassador, or some contracts with also to these boards of different countries. So you always need to be responsive, open for just new opportunities, and just work in totally different way, like MFTs, also worked out pretty well, in the beginning of the year, last year, it's a little bit slowing down, but I hope it will come back to life. Soon. So NFT might be also the future of photography and art in general. So I'm trying to be active in the community. It's hard to sustain, of course, all the fields, like education workshops, and NF T's, but still trying to be everywhere, just just a little bit. And that's cool. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  36:59  You know, I was gonna ask how, how the pandemic connect impacted your, your photography, but I think you've answered that really well by you know, having different ways of income. And, you know, it's I think that's important for people to consider not to put their eggs in one basket. So that's, that's really cool to hear. And talking about NFT it's something that's very hit something that's very coming up, right, something that just got popularised how what's what's your thought of NFT? And why did you start an NFT collection or got into NXT? In the first place? Daniel Kordan  37:35  Well, I think in the future is the future of everything we have. Because looking at what's happening, people are ready to start selling and buying houses with NFC, smart contracts, houses, cars, and I think air companies and just booking companies will also soon implement NF T's is the form of payment and the form of really, really amazing and simple smart contract. Yeah, and even now people buy for my tours and include that. So there is an option to just also transfer money transfer payments for the tour in encrypt as well. Just open for it. And yeah, regarding photography, it's also quite amazing. I see that even people who just started photography last year or two years ago, if they're active in the community, community, they're quite successful in the earning quite good money. So the only thing you just need to be super open, active and well, you will succeed. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  38:36  That's a really good advice. All right. Well, you know, we've talked for quite some time now. And, you know, I know you're a busy man and you have family as well. So I'm not going to keep you out much longer. But something that I always ask my you know, my guess in the podcast is if there is one advice whether it's live advice or photography advice that you could give to other that you know, that you learn yourself through this journey, what would that be? Daniel Kordan  39:09  I think it will be the advice that I actually myself didn't take in attention the first steps because it was almost not poseability about that. This advice will be to learn from online courses, or maybe workshops from other photographers because now most of photographers like Master photographers, they are releasing their courses, online courses, online education, and put a lot in there like let's say myself, I'm released a few courses and really put there everything the person needs to know like from composing shots to editing the pictures. And if you studied these courses, if you let's say try to repeat the style on some of the samples and some of your own images. Let's say you can repeat for like 50 times 100 times Okay, then you download that you remember that, and then you switch to another course, another course another photographer, you can take something from him as well. And then this is how you can build your own style. And this is how you can learn in a really fast way. Because the process that I undertake, it took me about eight years to 10 years to build a career when I'm paid when I'm just staying with leaving with photography. But now I see that people who really invest in this online courses, which are not very expensive, like, just the one course can be, like, just part of the filter for your camera, right. But what matters most is not the equipment, it's your knowledge. Yeah, it doesn't matter which camera you use, as most people at the beginning, they ask about that. But what matters is your knowledge and your education. So to get faster than eight to nine years, like I did, which is dreamt of having just watched some of the courses of my fellow friends, my fellow photographers, as well. And this is how you can accelerate this process, maybe up to one year or two years. And I see really, like life examples of people who invested the time and little bit of money and the knowledge and they succeeded really fast. I guess that's it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  41:22  That's, that's a really good advice. You know, even for myself, when I first started, I didn't know where to start. And, you know, I don't have I don't have any other photographers to follow or to ask questions to but there was, you know, fortunately, already YouTube, which YouTube wasn't out there, back then. So that already accelerated my journey. And I see that, you know, I like for example, for business and internet marketing, I just took the courses because it really shortcut your learning curve. So you're absolutely right. And I think it is the best advice that you can give other is to learn from other photographers or whatever their expertise may be. Because, yeah, I mean, you know, what is $100 or $200, or $2,000? Right? That's, that's their camera, like literally, and, you know, you can save years and years, like you say, you know, you spend at least eight years to get to a level where you are happy with So, wow, eight years is a long, long time. Daniel Kordan  42:27  I mean, people, they also they started, let's say, watching YouTube, and they get lost, because there's so much information out there, it doesn't have any system in there. And it works totally opposite. For the people, if they say, Okay, I have time this pandemic, many people did this and they start wishing non stop, information just comes in one year comes out from another year, because it doesn't have any system in there. So the difference of the courses that usually photographers make that there is a system and the make where the love the passion, and just step by step. So this is the main difference. Yeah, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  43:06  it really well. Because I think, you know, now like you could find anything anywhere, right? But it's just how to find it. So you're right, people, a lot of people get overwhelmed and quit altogether. So that's really good advice. But Daniel, it's been, you know, a really good conversation, love hearing your journey. I love hearing your perspective and the way you see the world through your lens. So for people who want to learn more about you or want to get in touch with you, or even join your workshop, or buy your online course, where can they find you? What's the best way to get in touch with you? Daniel Kordan  43:45  Well, there are two links. The link to my website is Daniel gordon.com. I have some tools to set guide myself then Iceland photo tools. Its main company for my photography business, Iceland for the tourists.com. And for online courses. Its cordon landscapes.com. This is main website for the courses, there are presets, there are online workshops or editing courses. So there's already quite a lot to see out there. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  44:12  Fantastic. Well, they know thanks a lot for your time. You know, it's been a good conversation. And it's been very inspiring to hear your journey. So thanks a lot to be you know, for coming and be part of this podcast and inspiring other peoples who may be in their journey or just get started in photography. Daniel Kordan  44:32  That's my pleasure. So always happy to talk about my passion. Yeah, that's fantastic. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  44:36  All right, we kill hunters. Well, thank you very much for tuning in. If you haven't subscribed, so feel, make sure you hit the subscribe button. But also don't forget to check out Daniel's profile as well as his work. I know most of you would already know him. But if for whatever reason you've been in a cave and haven't heard of Daniel Cornyn, then go check out his work you will be blown away I promise you but thanks a lot for listening and make sure again hit the subscribe button and I'll see you guys on the next podcast  

Ali Ejmal is a Photographer & Videographer who loves telling stories through his camera lens. Originally from Libya and now based in Auckland, New Zealand. Creativity, travel and learning are the core foundation of who he is. He enjoys capturing special moments with my camera, loves to put a smile on someone’s face and inspires others. It all started as a hobby for him. After his last Uni degree exams, he purchased his first camera and has never looked back since!   Link to the photo/s that we talked about in the podcast https://foundation.app/@Creative_hobby/foundation/128156 https://www.instagram.com/p/CaxmiN4BlVA/   If you want to learn more about Ali’s work, you can find it here: https://www.instagram.com/outdoorzsafari/ https://www.tiktok.com/@outdoorzsafari https://twitter.com/outdoorzsafari Link to print, workshop, NFT, etc https://foundation.app/@Creative_hobby https://www.uniqueperspective.io/   Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: • Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify   • Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography   • Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr   • Website: https://podcast.thewickedhunt.com      • Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr     For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography by Stanley Aryanto: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/      • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ • Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com      • Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/    Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation. It would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.  --------------------- Transcription: Ali Ejmal  0:00  That's how I got to where I am. I've always I've never said no to anything. I've always tried new things someone invites me to something you know even if I'm nervous or you know standing you inviting me therapy or podcast, I was like, I'm gonna say yes, but I was like, you know, I was an introvert I've never done one before. Let's just do it. Yeah, let's just say yet Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:26  Hey, weekenders. Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share photographers journey and how they find hope, purpose and happiness, true photography. And hopefully you could find inspiration and life lesson a two day journey as well. Today, I have someone very excited I met him a true Twitter space. He just got one of very inspiring, first Milky Way shot the other day. And I must say it's, it's, it took me I don't know how long until I can take photo like that. So just looking at that. I was just so inspired. You know, he just taken photography to the next to the new level in this past few months. I can't wait to have a chat with him. So Ali, what is going on? How's things in Auckland? Ali Ejmal  1:16  Well, it's South Stanley. Thanks for having me, man. Yeah, I mean, it's going it's going good. We just getting into autumn. So we're this shot is starting to change a bit. So, you know, you never know how the wood is you in New Zealand keeps changing every every five minutes. Yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:34  That's awesome. It means more better weather for for some photography. I suppose the transition periods always exciting, right? Ali Ejmal  1:43  Yeah. 100% I mean, I love I love autumn. It's, you know, it's one of the seasons that I really love. You know, last year, I went on a trip to the South Island in autumn and I just loved it. You know, just the three colours and everything is just so amazing. Yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  2:02  That's awesome. Yeah. Look, listeners if you I mean, you can't really see this. And Ali is actually in his car. While we record this. There's so much commitment to make this happen. I'm very thankful for you to make this happen, Ali, but let us know who you are, man. Just a little bit about yourself. You know, where you're from in how you move to Auckland. And what makes you stay? Ali Ejmal  2:31  Yeah, so my name is Ali. I'm originally from Libya, North Africa, if anyone who doesn't know where it is, yeah, I came to New Zealand when I was 14 years old. I came here to study actually. So that's how I came here. It's only meant to be four years study with my family. But ended up staying here now for about 11 years, actually. So. So yeah, it's been it's been about 11 and a half years actually. Now here in New Zealand. I've been living in Auckland. Yeah, you know, I studied high school here and university. And, you know, I just feel now I'm like a kiwi. Now. It's been a you know, it's been 11 and a half years. I just got used to New Zealand. So, yeah, it's been it's been great. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  3:23  And you're, you're an engineer as well, right? If I'm not wrong, is that right? Ali Ejmal  3:27  Yeah. Yeah. So, um, you know, I've studied construction management. You know, and when I was doing high school, I was just trying to, like, you know, in high school, it's always a struggle, you know, to try and find what career you want to do. And I've always, I've always been that type of person who, I don't know, I just had it naturally in me that, you know, I've always wanted to, like, find what my strengths are as a person, what I like doing and stuff like that. So, I was, I was trying to figure myself out in high school, you know, what I what I like doing, and I found out that there's a class I took, you know, in the, in the late years of my high school, it's a it's a building class, which basically, you know, you do hard material tech technology, you just make like, you know, little furniture with timber and stuff like that. So I found myself I'm a, you know, I love you know, doing stuff with my hands and, and there was a, we had like, groups of people and they used to come to me and ask me questions about how to do things because like, I was probably the first or second person in that class, actually, because, like, I felt like natural like doing these sort of things that felt natural and people used to come, you know, students come and ask me questions. And I felt like, you know, I'm helping them out, given them tips and stuff. You know, I've felt like, Oh, I was like, Oh, I'm a people person I love, you know, I kind of felt like I love that type of work, you know, like construction type of work. And then and I felt like I was a people person. So I was like, Oh, let me see what I can do, you know. And I found the, you know, I find construction management, which is basically a, you know, it's a field part of engineering. So, you know, I took that path. I went to university for that. Yeah, and just study construction management was all about, you know, people management and dealing with people and, you know, understanding how everything work, and you know, how they manage construction sites, how you, you know, how you get things done, basically, and working under pressure and all that stuff. So that was, that was my strength, as I said, since I was a young boy. And I've also I've always loved you know, I've always loved construction, because my uncle used to, used to do like, he used to have a workshop. Back Back in Libya, he used to, like, have those big machineries that you use in construction. So I've always had an interest in it since a young age. But, you know, as I said, Through the years, I just started finding what my strings are in life and what I love doing. And yeah, so that's, that's how it started. You know, that's how construction started. For me. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  6:31  That's cool, man. Thanks for sharing that. And I mean, it's always good to kind of like hear that background before, you know, jumping into photography, but, you know, like, how do you go from that into photography? What was that first thing that make you want to be a photographer? Ali Ejmal  6:54  Yeah, um, when, when I was 12 years old, my dad actually bought a point and shoot camera. And that was, again, back in Libya. And my dad, like, yeah, he used to take us out on like, little trips here and there, and used to use the camera. And, you know, he gives it to me as well to shoot and stuff like that. And I kind of liked it. I remember one time we went to went to my cousin's house, actually, and they've got, they've got a big farm. And from there, so I just decided to take the camera with me. So I took it from home, went to my cousin's house, and just went out in the farm and started taking photos of horses, you know, the dogs and everything. And I was just loving it, you know, and I also made like, a video, you know, I was I was making a video of us like playing football in front of the house as a little kids, you know? So I don't know, I just since then I like a lot. The, you know, the idea of capturing memories. But I've never really, I've never really thought of anything about photography. I just, I just thought that, you know, taking photos and you know, with my dad's camera, and that's about it. But then, you know, a few years later when I came to New Zealand when I was yeah, in 2018 Basically, that's when I really got into photography. I just, you know, kind of clicked back into me again, but you know, every time I go for a drive or you know, sometimes I take my time that weekend, I just go for a long drive here in the gym, Lachlan, stuff like that, just you know, I used to always take photos and it just clicked in me that I love capturing memories and you know, I love capturing moments like that because I used to always go to my phone and just look at the photos I captured few months ago and you know, always like I always feel like that was great moment you know? And also like when I go to like my brother's you know, any celebration he's got a uni only plan that I always take my phone with me and you know, I take photos of that because again, like I felt like I love capturing memories. So in 2019 You know, after my last exam of like uni time I decided to just go on YouTube and just search you know, what, what are the best beginner cameras and I wanted something that hasn't gone up flip screen because again, I love videos. Well I love doing video. So yeah, I ended up buying my first timer and it's Canon EOS in 50 I still actually have at home yeah, so from there just you know started going locally around the parks that we have around around the area and just taking you know photos and I yeah, I got my I got like room Am I subscribing to my subscription? And I remember I was I didn't know what I was doing then I was just using that saturation slider and just doing all the way of just making the photos look terrible. But the photos look good to me back then. So yeah, that's that's how I started. Yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  10:19  I remember. I mean, I was the same with you. When I first started, I used to use that slider so much, overuse that slider so much. And I remember, one of my photo got picked up by the by one of this big account and got shared and I always just get trashed. Everyone is like, oh, you know, slider 200% or saturation 100, like 1,000% or something like that. It's like, it's funny. It's the rites of passage, right? We all can have gone through that we started with, like, we just oversaturated over fibrin photos, because they just look good. But it's yeah, it's funny how that works. 100 And it's funny because m 50 is such a good camera to get started. You know, if there's any student that come to me that ask is like, Okay, what camera should I get? Get em 50 It's cheap. It's great. Even good for astrophotography it's fantastic. Ali Ejmal  11:23  It's great. I mean, speaking of ashlag actually used it like, you know, I use that USM 50 When I started photography for about four months, and then I decided to buy any RSR. But actually, like, about a few weeks ago, actually, I took the USM 50 Back again, like you know, I took the Duster but again, you know, it's okay, and I actually went and tried to shoot extra with it and actually turned out pretty good. Yeah, too bad. Pretty good damages from the, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  11:53  ya know, for sure. A lot of my first like, you know, Astro, my first my student who are never shoot, but when it should Astro I told them just get them 50 It's okay. And it's perfect. So I agree man and fit they have a lot of potential. But um, yeah, so, man, it's it's good to hear you know, your story. And I think you know, being a photographer that is something that's really big in our in our mind is just being able to capture a moment and being able to savour that moment right and go back to it whenever we want to. Do you have like, Do you have any photo or any moments that are you know, if I asked you about you know, one of your biggest moment that you've captured what is the first photo that came across and tell me about about a little bit about that day and you know, but that adventure Ali Ejmal  12:46  I think recently in you know, in recently from last lockdown we had I think it was August Yeah, yeah, in the August last year. It was a photo that I took it's actually in one of our local beaches in Oakland to Bihar beach. I went to you know, just to basically you know, just take photos during the sunset you know, to lock downs and just trying to get out and just shoot something you know, I just had that afternoon to myself and I was actually waiting for one of my other geography friends here man just while I was waiting for him now he's just you know, just you know, trying to snap some shots and it was a low tide that day he was just across he had a she was wearing she had she was wearing a dress she had a camera that strap on I think was a phone camera by and she was just walking across a ambulance like because it's a low tide there was like an ice formation and on the side with a little bit of puddles and stuff like that all over so it looked so cool and as soon as I saw a weekend I always say I think something as soon as I say we're going to be good photo to take I haven't even taken the photo yet. And then I just put the camera down you know I'm just got the reflection of that water while she was walking and she had that you know, film camera was terrible. That was I think that's my favourite photo that I've taken so far. It's just that moment he might like you know from lockdown just being locked in the house for you know for about two months and and just you know, just trying to get out just to be creative, you know, use their creativity and a sunset in an hour local areas. And you know, that's that's my I think that's my best Yeah, maybe suppose so. Yeah. And I'd say Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  14:51  that's awesome, man. Yeah, I mean low type shots is a low tide condition. So it makes such a good shot because they are that reflection and you know, all that good. He's on the foreground so, man glad to hear that and you know cuz you told me You said earlier that it was when you're just got out of the lockdown as well, isn't it because you had a pretty lengthy lockdown, right if I'm not wrong? Ali Ejmal  15:15  Yes, yes we had. We have a lot of lockdowns here in New Zealand actually. We go in for like two months lockdown. And then we open up for a few months and go back again, lockdown again. It's yeah, it's been crazy since since 2020. But finally we only have it now. So. So that's a good thing. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  15:40  Yeah, and and so how does? How does have photography help you during, you know, this tough time recently, especially, you know, not being able to travel as much, you know, being able, I mean, you know, during the COVID, we kind of felt like our freedom has been stripped. Right. I mean, it almost felt like our life have been stripped everything that we know about our life kind of just taken away, and how has photography impacted, if any? Or how does it have helped you go through this difficult time? Ali Ejmal  16:19  Yeah, you know, what would photography and you know, during lockdown, it's been a blessing and a curse at the same time. You know? I'm more of like, a local photographer anyway, so it hasn't affected Well, I mean, it has affected me in some ways, but, you know, there's, there's a lot of filters on go out, you know, you know, they don't really spend more than two weeks ago, they asked me to go for trips, you know, all over New Zealand, for example, and so on. But me because obviously, I work as well as construction managers, it's very hard for me to take leave and stuff like that. So most of my travels are local. So it, you know, in regards to look down in terms of photography, it affected me that much, because I would still be able to go to my local areas that I always go to, to take photos. However, I mean, you know, it's, you know, it's been great, especially this last lockdown that we had, it's been great to sit down and you know, have that time because as I said, I work full time. So it's been always hard to try to learn new things with photography and finding the time to do photography. So actually, I've always, even though you know, it's, it's not a good thing, but I've always loved lockdowns because I get to either learn a new thing, you know, I could go to Photoshop and learn a whole new, you know, new skills. You know, that's what I did last, the last lockdown, we had like two months of, you know, just staying at home. And that's what I did. I just went and sharpened my skills in, you know, in Photoshop and Lightroom learning new editing styles, you know, just improving myself as a photographer overall. And when I get the chance, when we are able to at least go out I will just go to the local beaches and just take take sunset photos and stuff like that. But also, like, you know, that last lockdown, you know, it was an opportunity for a lot of us actually around the world. You know, we, that's when I kind of got into NF T's and like, you know, met a lot of amazing people like you, Stanley and and so many photographers that inspired me, you know, during lockdown, like, you know, their, their editing styles, the way they do things, you know, it's just motivated me and I was looking forward for the to get knocked down to the elbow so I can actually go out and shoot because I was inspired by so many people that I met through Twitter Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  19:04  Yeah, that's That's cool, man. Like I think that's that's that's and I love how you say that right? Because everything that happened in our life have both good and bad. And you know, through the lockdown, I know it's difficult and not a lot of people hate love it I don't like it. I don't actually I don't know any people that truly love it. But there are a few different good that came out of it and you know, you're able to basically harness that positivity and make that into something that is you know, great instead of just looking at the negative so that is very inspiring. And that's great to hear. Right and I hope you know the listeners out there who are still struggling to, you know, to go through kind of lockdown and stuff like that can find inspiration from this. So talk to me about that very You first Milky Way shot out, I know I saw your photo there of the first Milky Way shot. And it was incredible man. And you know, for a first Milky Way shot, it was insane. Like, it took me months. And, you know, until I got my successful shot of the stars, and it took me another like, probably half a year or something like that until I shoot my first Milky Way. So to see that you're able to capture that that was amazing. But what I'd like you to share to the listener is what inspires you to shoot the Milky Way. Why? Why the Milky Way why, you know, because the sunsets are beautiful sunrise, the bluebird shots are beautiful. Why do you go into this hassle of going at, I don't know, to one o'clock in the morning, I'm guessing, and try to find the Milky Way. And Ali Ejmal  20:56  again, you know, like, before, me going into Twitter, and you know, getting to meet all of those lovely ographers before then I really be an abrupt but, you know, hearing the stories of the extra photographers that I met through Twitter, there's a lot of them here in New Zealand as well. You know, you extended as well, one of them, like, you know, just like through tweets cases, I just loved their journeys that were talking about when they were gone and taking the Milky Way shots. I just I was inspired. I was like, Oh my God, I want to try this. Or at least try it once. You know, and I've seen so many beautiful photos, Milky Way shots on Twitter, and one of them is LeBron Ray. He's, you know, he's, he's one of my good good friends here. In Oakland. He's actually photographer. His photos are crazy good man and the work ethic that that guy's got, it's just insane. Like, he's, he's so committed. And he's he's inspired me a lot, you know, and, and he's actually the one I remember, I was telling him, I want to fit in, I want to get into this extra stuff, like I need I need to add, I remember me and actually we went shopping, you know, and he's was telling me which you know, which lens best to buy and, and you know, which tripod and stuff like that. And actually, yeah, we went shopping for my 24 millimetre lens. One point I you know, so, and I bought my tripod, and, you know, and then he actually told me some, you know, before taking that shot that we're talking about. He actually, you know, taught me, you know, just few things through messages. And I was like, What do I do for my, for my first thought, I'm gonna go and take time tonight what what should I do what, whatever tension I have what, you know, what's, what's the ISO and what's all of that stuff, and he was just, you know, being in detail telling you how to shoot it and how, how to do everything. So again, like I was inspired by so many of the photographers that we have on Twitter that I've not, I mean, so many amazing photographers, just the list keeps going. I mean, Stanley, it's huge to me. I mean, Laron. You know, we've got Kenny, we've got, like, so many so many amazing photographers. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  23:32  Yeah, that's cool, man, that's really inspiring. And I love how you shortcut your learning curve, right? Just by going to someone who have gone through someone who know what they're doing and just, you know, find a recipe from them. And you know, I think one of the one of the things that I learned from my journey is that the best way to learn something is to model someone who've already done it and to immerse yourself in that subject and you did just that and you know, that photo was incredible man it's one four it's just such a beautiful shot composition wise as well as you know, exposure and everything so man massive Oh, excuse me massive congratulations to you for making that happen. That's awesome. And thank you yeah, so what what was the learning what was the learning from taking that first QA shot? I mean, you don't have to go through too much details but in a higher level. You know if somebody can come to you as like, hey Alia. So your first Milky Way shot and they're incredible and by the way, guys, we'll put a link on the description so you guys can see this shot this incredible shot. So if people come to you and say like, Hey, I want to you know, take awesome shot like this, like what you did on the first Milky Way shot. What are some of the advice Well, says what are the top three advice you would tell them? On, you know, being able to make that night a good investment and a successful astrophotography outings? Ali Ejmal  25:12  Yeah, well, the tips I would say is, like maybe go out with, you know, a, a professional extra photographer, you know, first of all, just to just to, you know, to understand how they go, because that day actually, I went, I went out with my good friend use of him and his wife, actually, we went out and shot that shot. But yeah, I would say go out and, you know, and just experience how other photographers, you know, how other people would be. It's, it's their bread and butter. They know how to do the sort of work, so just go out with them and, and learn the way you know, when I was out with user, I was looking at how he's positioning everything, how is he, you know, how he's zooming in on the stars, and getting, you know, focused? And so on. So, yeah, my first step, I would say, you know, just go out within astrophotography, so that you actually learn that while you're doing that. Secondly, I would say, maybe, learn how to Yeah, I mean, maybe doesn't talk about it already. But, you know, like focusing, I mean, you know, I don't have a tracker. So I mean, I've just started so I'm just, you know, using a tripod and a camera on the lens, I would say just, you know, learn how to focus on the stars, make sure that you do know, your pinpoint your focus, to get there, you know, a sharp shot. I mean, it'd be nice to get a tracker, you know, a tracker is like, the next thing for me to get, you know, mix your image a lot, a lot sharper. But yeah, I mean, you know, learn your focus. You know, and that's, I think that was a big learning for me, because at the start, I didn't know what I was doing. Until actually, I was showing body. My, one of my Astro friends how to focus on that on on that side, because I was trying to focus on I was like, Is this good? And he was like, Man, I'm like, this is blurry, you got a good other area. So, so yeah, that was that, you know, that was a great learning curve for me. And the third one, I would say, the best learning I had would be how to stack images, you know, usually using stacks and, you know, if you have programmes and just really diving into first time extra Milky Way shot was, I felt like was good. But if I, like, you know, zoom in and look at the details, I can, like, see around the trees and around the, you know, their satellite is a little bit of, you know, that hazy, you know, shadowy, not, because, like I haven't masked the sky correctly, and stuff like that. So, I've learned from that as well, after I posted the photo. I was like, oh, no, is some, you know, some shadows and stuff like that. So, yeah, so just learning, you know, learning how to stack the images, and then also just, you know, mask the sky around, like, you know, around the edges between the foreground and the background, and so on. So, yeah, I think those are my three tips. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  28:35  That's awesome, man. I mean, like, it's cool that you capture that, you know, especially with the first your very first Milky Way shot. And I know, like a lot of people say, you know, you get a tracker, because you can get a lot cleaner shot with a tracker, but I don't have a tracker as well. You know, all my shots are off the tripod and a camera. And there are a lot of different things that you could do in a pose to kind of or in during the show during the shoot as well. You can make it a higher quality. So yeah, that's, that's awesome to hear. You know, I think that is a really good advice to just find someone and just, you know, gone through it, learn the technical details and then you know, post processing that's, that's literally like the pillars of making photography great, right? Yeah, man. So like during your journey as a photographer, do you ever come across a time where you felt like you lost your passion for photography or you have a burnout or you know, things like this? Have you ever come across time like this at all? Ali Ejmal  29:49  No, I've never, ever come across a time like this. The only thing is, which I'm actually going through right now is finding my A niche, right? So I'm still trying to figure that out, you know, in regards to just finding what I, what I want to do with photography, but in regards to, like, you know, burning out or feeling like, the creative process or anything like that, it's never happened. But yeah, like, lately I've just been trying to figure out what I want to do with photography, you know, what sort of, you know, you know, what sort of photography genre I want to I want to do, like, my first inspiration, or first videos I've ever watched when I started filming was Peter McKinnon. And I've always loved his style. And he does a lot of different things. You know, he does. Landscape, he does so many things. So that has inspired me, but I'm still, I'm still trying to figure out, you know, what, what is specifically I'm gonna do in photography, but yeah, in regards to, you know, this creative route when he thought that I've never had never had it. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  31:04  So that's cool, man, like, you know, I think finding a niche is very difficult, and some people just given up on it, and don't bother on it. Right, which is not not not a bad thing. But well, we'll talk us through for people who are in this process, right? I'm trying to find a niche and everything. What, what are you doing right now that kind of? Well, what are you doing right now to be able to find that niche to be able to, you know, get you closer to that, because I see that you kind of try a few different things, and you kind of change, you know, and stuff like that. So just talk us through, like, you know, the journey and you know, how that journey goes. Ali Ejmal  31:50  Yeah, so when, when I started photography, you know, I started that on the basis that I wanted to do landscapes, you know, landscape photography, I was taking a lot of landscape shots and stuff like that, but then I wanted to expand on new things. So I tried, you know, architectural photography, street photography, because, again, you know, I do construction management, so I love buildings about structure. So that was another thing that I, you know, I got into I got it too, you know, you know, the buildings actually, that I built. I just can't take photos of them and stuff like that. So, yeah, so I got into, you know, I would say just, you know, get into different things. So that's what I got into so I started actually photography, architecture landscape. I mean, I, you know, I had a lot in cars, you know, automotive so then I took a few shots of cars as well. You know, I love a lot of fullback for vehicles, I love like, you know, those offroaders I've always have love for these people. So, you know, I just go to the beach, we've got a beach here in Oakland, but you know, grandmother for photos on them, they they always go there, you know, just, you know, take the cars over there. So I was always taking photos of the cars and stuff. Yeah, I think I think these are the, the, the ones that I really fell in love with, I can put a product for the photography as well. But I don't feel like I loved it that much. So I tried different things, you know, I just keep trying things. I always try different things, different styles of photography, and just see what what works for me at the moment. I love landscape. That's number one. And then I love, you know, cityscapes and street photography, that's number two. And the third one is automotive. I love those three, those are like my favourite. And I, that it's, you know, I'm trying to niche down even more, and try to figure out why you'd like to be more specific. But I feel like I don't know if I could because I'm just struggling because those those three, I just love so much. Yeah, so I'd say just, you know, keep trying different things. And I keep telling myself every day as well just keep trying different things and just see what works. For me, you know, on a, let's say, product photography. I tried that. But that's kind of the list now I just started. didn't feel like it. Right. So, Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  34:27  yeah, that's awesome. And I think that is very true. One of the best way to find your niche is just to try a bunch of different things. I know that had worked really well for me, so and I know a lot of people who cannot even like you know, they don't even to their professional career, they have changed niches and that's okay as well. Right. So yeah, thanks for that advice, man. That's a really good advice, especially coming from someone who's in it right now. Right. I think it's easy to you know, for people to I judge people that have already made it and it's like, and just kind of brush it off because oh yeah, but you know, you already made it. So this must be easy. But, you know, coming from someone like us actually in the journey, you know, finding that path. That niche that you really enjoy in photography is, is very relatable. Right. So that's good to hear. Thanks for sharing that. So you let's talk about, you know, a lot of your photos. Now you have what, seven photos you mentioned on minted as an NFT. So before we get into that, let's talk about why you want to get into NFT. Ali Ejmal  35:50  Yeah, so NF T's. So first time I've ever heard of tes was early last year actually was around January or February. Like I had Gary Vee talk about it and stuff like that, but like, it's just like, you know, just a quick thing, like, you know, what the hell. So back then, when I was in a trip, I was done the sound fun actually, in? I think it was yeah, it was in April last year. And we have a photographer here in New Zealand, his name is Caleb Caleb Johnson. If you guys have heard of him, he's you know, is he's one of photographers in New Zealand that got into NF T's. I remember I used to follow him on Twitter. I hate Twitter back then. But I've never really used it that much. But I just started using Twitter, in you know, around that time and I used to follow him. And he used to, you know, tweet about as well talk about NF T's but I still didn't understand what the meaning of three was. Until June. Last year, I still story Instagram story of pays tindy she's a photographer from Utah. And she was saying that, you know, she's listed some of her photography on as an industry on foundation. And she had like a link on this story. So I was able to click on the link took me to Foundation. And then you know, I did died from from the, you know, like, I did that into Foundation. And I was like seeing her work and other photographers work. And it was just showing me so much stuff. And I was like wow. Since then I was like, I need to get my head around, you know, NF T's and how it works. And I basically got into clubhouse that was, that was a thing back back back then. So I go into clubhouse and I was just listening to photography videography, chats and NFT chats. And I was just trying to get my head around whether there is I was just listening in I was an introvert, I couldn't really talk, I can't really go up and talk I'll be so nervous, I'll just, I'll be just listening and I will be just, you know, trying to absorb as much information as possible. I was doing that for about a month until end of January, basically. And then this is when I sorry, to end of June last year and and after, you know, end of June, Twitter spaces started and stuff like that. So I got into Twitter spaces. And then I felt really you know, after I'm like doing research, I felt ready to put my first book on foundation. I got an invite to a friend who who I met through clubhouse. And yeah, I'm gonna invite foundation and start putting my photography in there. And then I said go into Twitter spaces and meeting new photographers and getting to know them and I was very, very nervous at the start. Like, you know, as an introvert, I couldn't really talk that much I didn't even know how to you know, I felt like I think the English as soon as I got back as a speaker, I just, you know, I felt like I forgot the whole English language. But yeah, I just got my head around it and just making new friends. Yeah, just, you know, just the journey that keeps going and going. That's still there right now. Can use Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  39:42  So, sorry, I didn't realise I was muted. Yeah. So what made you want to like mint, your work as an NFT you know, what is your vision and to make that Ali Ejmal  40:03  Um, as like, as I say, like I was here, like, I started deep diving into NF T's and I felt like a lie, I started understanding that it's it could be, it will be, it's going to be the next, you know, it's going to be the next thing in the world is going to be a neat technology. I'm, I'm a futuristic person, that's what they're my strengths in my personality. So I always look ahead and try and understand how things work in the future. And I felt like, you know, when I got into NF T's I was hearing like Gary Vee, I still listen to him all the time talking about MFDs. And, you know, just from understanding how NF T's work, when I was doing my research, and so on, last year, just clicked in my head, I was like, This is gonna be the next this is gonna be like, you know, this is gonna be like, the new Internet back in the day, this is going to be like, you know, the new opportunity, but you like social media sort of hype, you know, back in the day. So I was like, I need to get into this, because I've had missed opportunities before previously. So I was like, I need to do this right now. So I'm glad I got into it in June. You know, and, as I said, it's, you know, NFT is, is like, you know, it's you put your work on the crypto in the, in the, in the blockchain, and it's a way for you to document your work, but also to, you know, just to share with other people and sell it online. You know, as as an NFT, which is, you know, it's a non fungible token. So, you know, if you put it out there as an MFT, it's out there. And, you know, no one can copy it, you know, no one can steal it, even though you can, you know, right click, save the photo, whatever. But, if you if you go back and look who owns that, it's, um, you know, it's, it's, I mean, NF T's is, and the community behind the fees as well. It's like, amazing, so many amazing people. So, I'm so glad I got into it. You know, I mean, if I, if I didn't listen to Gary Vee, or, you know, if I wasn't curious enough, like, you know, I was, I was curious since the start, but if I didn't have the curiosity, I don't think I would have got into it. Yeah, I'm so happy. And I'm so proud of myself that I was curious. And I got into, and if these because a lot of people, you know, like, opportunities like this, they just say, oh, whatever, you know, now, it's fake and all that stuff. Even if it's fake, you know, anything, anything that's even fake, I always try to get in there. If people are doing something, there is an interest, then I will just jump on it. Even if, you know, even if I heard bad things about it, I would just go and try it myself and then make my own decision. My own opinion about it, but I'm like it, I'll just move on with my life. So yeah, I've always had that curiosity. So I was like, whatever, you know, even even my dad was telling me NF T's is you know, he was telling me to scam and all that stuff. I was like, I'm just gonna try it out. Yeah, no, I'm just gonna try and see how it goes. And I'm glad. Because as I said, the friendship and chips itself is like, you know, it's, it's worth, you know, it's worth everything in my laptop. Yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  43:39  Yeah, man. That's awesome. I mean, I'm guessing you come across LeBron from NFT. Space, right? Ali Ejmal  43:46  Yes, yeah. Yeah. I've met like before, lefties? I didn't know many photographers here in New Zealand, per se. I've met through nfts. Yeah. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  43:55  So your, your milk, your you could argue that your first meal QA shot was successful because you are in the NFT space. Right. But exactly, exactly. But I love that man. I love what you say that because a lot of people judge before they even they judge based not based on their own experience, but based on what other people say what those experiences are. And that's just sad to hear, right? Because, yeah, like, I see that a lot of people have a bias and when they before, if they don't get into it and immerse themselves in those, whatever it is, it's easy to say, you know, what work and what doesn't work. But when you are immersed in that that's when you get to understand fully of, you know, all this thing, and yeah, it's just it's sad. up, people are not giving it a go. Because it's such a great thing. It's the future of the art world and, you know, it will change the world for sure. You know. So I'm glad that you say that to give it a try anyway, you know, and have this. And that just goes to show that you know how courageous you are. Because a lot of people, you know, think about the failures, everything that could go wrong before they try it, but you decided to take a leap of faith, and just give it a try. And it worked out pretty well for you. But yeah, I'm that was just inspiring to hear to hear us share that. And for those of you who doesn't know, what's NFT, is, I'll have a specific episode to explain to you and the link is just down below as well. All right, well, Ali, you know, it's been a great conversation with you. And it's one thing that I always ask my, my guests in the podcast, you know, if there is one advice that you could give to the listener out there, whether it's a live advice, whether it's photography, advice, whatever it might, it may be connected to, you know, that got you to where you are today, what would that advice be? Ali Ejmal  46:24  I would say just be curious, you know, try new things, try different things. I mean, that, you know, Curiosity is that is like, it's it's so powerful. A lot of people, you know, don't give curiosity, a lot of credit, but I mean, it's, you know, just try new things, you know, always saying, yes, you know, like, it doesn't matter what it is, just say yes, and just don't do it, try it, you know, try whatever, you know, I don't know, football or whatever, in life, you know, just go and try different different things, because that's how I got to where I am. You know, I've always, I've never said no to anything. I've always tried new things. You know, if someone invites me to something, I'd be like, you know, even if I'm nervous, or like, you know, like, you know, standing up biting metre to a podcast, I was like, I'm gonna say yes, but I was like, you know, I was an introvert. I've never done one before. And I was like, let's just do it. Yeah, let's just say yes. So, yeah, I always say yes. You never know what it takes. Yeah, I mean, like, you know, saying yes, to NF peas and stuff like that. I mean, that took me to places I've never been to before. I've met so many, you know, friends all around the world. I've been to events in New Zealand, you know, and that's, like NF T's and stuff like that. And, and I've learned so much in regards to life, but also in geography and the fees and everything, man. Just always be curious. That's my mindset. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  47:52  That's awesome. Man. That is awesome. I mean, it's funny, right? Because I wasn't very curious when probably a good part of my life. And at one point, I decided to be curious. And here I am right now, you know, I left my engineering career and become a photographer. And it has been the best the best decision in my life. Right. And you're absolutely right. You know, it might be scary, but you know, it might just be the best decision that you'll ever made. You know, I mean, it took me 30 years to find my passion, you know, in photography, and yeah, I only find it by just trying different things. So that is such a great advice, Ali. Well, Ali, thank you very much for being here. And thank you very much for sharing all your journey sharing all your wisdom and for the people who want to learn more about you Where can where can they find you and connect with you? Ali Ejmal  49:00  Yeah, you can find me on Twitter, my handle is outdoors sky. Yes. So you can find me on check me out and yeah, let's have fun. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  49:18  Fantastic man. Yeah, we will put you know all your links on the description below and you know, for those of you who are into NFT and like to look into NFT in photography, Ali have also a collection that will be you know, the link will be down below as well. But yeah, Ali, thank you very much for being here. Man. I'm really appreciate your time, your commitment to be in the car and make this happen. Ali Ejmal  49:48  Thanks very much, Stanley. It's been a pleasure, man. Thanks for having me. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  49:53  All right, we can do is there you have it. Hopefully you have a great time listening to that get a lot of inspiration from our The perspective and journey. For those of you who haven't subscribed, do subscribe so that you don't miss out the next interview and the next chat will be very much appreciate if you leave a word or two on the review if this podcast has been inspiring or helpful to you, but it's been a great time. Hopefully you enjoy the chat today, and I'll see you guys next week.  

“Seasoned, creative, and authentically Irish – that’s me, and that’s my photography.”            No one photographs the same river twice. Darren specialises in landscapes and seascapes for precisely this reason – the ever-changing, never predictable, but always dependable beauty that abounds provides an endless feast for his photographer’s eyes.   His goal is to capture that beauty and share it with the world. When he’s not crouched midstream praying, my nonslip soles hold true or hiking steep rocky inclines for that perfect aerial view.   You can find on the Irish Photography Podcast talking about everything photography with guests from around the globe.   The photo that was mentioned on the podcast: https://www.instagram.com/p/Cb5S6LhKmcz/   If you want to learn more about Darren’s work, you can find it here: • Subscribe to his YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/c/DarrenJSpoonleyPhotography   • Listen to my talk about everything photography here on The Irish Photography Podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/ie/podcast/the-irish-photography-podcast/id1434087730   • Instagram - https://instagram.com/darrenjspoonleyphoto • Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/darrenjspoonleyphoto • Website - https://darrenspoonley.wixsite.com/photo   Other ways to listen and subscribe to the podcast: • Spotify - http://bit.ly/twhspotify   • Apple Podcast - https://bit.ly/Theartofphotography   • Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheArtOfPhotographyWithStanleyAr   • Website: https://podcast.thewickedhunt.com      • Tune In (Alexa) - https://bit.ly/TuneInTheArtOfPhotographyPodcastWithStanleyAr     For those of you who want to learn more about The Wicked Hunt Photography by Stanley Aryanto: • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewickedhunt/      • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewickedhunt/ • Masterclass: https://www.TheWickedHuntPhotography.com      • Photo print: https://www.TheWickedHunt.com/    Don't forget to leave a review on the podcast if you enjoy this conversation. It would help us to get found and help to inspire other photographers.  ---------------- Transcription: Darren J Spoonley  0:00  that then can start creating and fueling, as you said, the imposter syndrome because they're thinking I'll never be as good as this other person, but an actual fact they shouldn't be aspiring to be as good as anybody else other than being better than who they were themselves yesterday Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:19  Hey, weekenders Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share photographers journey and how photography has given hope, purpose and happiness. And today we have Darren all the way from Ireland. How Darren J Spoonley  0:33  to kid me to fall chickadee are so Irish for how are you? And you're very welcome from Ireland. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  0:40  Fantastic. Yeah. Man, I always love the Irish accent. I wish I have the Irish accent to be honest. But welcome, welcome. And how are you doing? Darren J Spoonley  0:53  I'm very good. Thanks. Very good standing. Yeah, good to finally you know, see your face. I know we've been chatting, you know, as we've kind of reminisce, go for over a year, I suppose you're good now to come on to your podcasts and have a chat about subject I'm passionate about. It's a subject I think that is very rewarding, very frustrating, very entertaining, can be all different seasons in just one day. So I love the outdoors. And I love photography. So yeah, you'd be hard pressed to stop me talking. Let's put it that way. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  1:19  That's fantastic. That's why we have you here. And I know, it's five o'clock here in five o'clock in the morning here in Bali. And it's 11pm. So it was hard to find time. But when we find the time that could make you work. But before we get started, can you give the listeners a quick introduction of who you are, you know, whether you do photography for a full time or as a as a just as a hobby, and just a little bit about yourself and who you are in this world. Darren J Spoonley  1:47  Sure, yeah, Darren is my name. I'm from Ireland, I'm a, I suppose a semi pro, semi amateur semi passionate photographer, it's something that I use on a day to day basis to kind of keep me sane in a world that's going a million miles an hour. Photography, for me is something that I use as a tool to be able to help me to be able to kind of keep a balance, you know, most people can have sports or different types of hobbies. For me, outdoor photography is both because I'm out I'm walking and hiking, I'm out for long, extended periods of time in the fresh air, and you want the bonus of all that is I have my camera with me. So I can take a photograph. And it's something I think that a lot of people get into. But it's not really something very good at very fast either. It's a long journey. And I'm in Journey, enjoying every part of that journey as I've gone through it all for years, and I keep evolving. And every time you go with the cameras, the school, everything you do with the camera, keep practising and you'll always get better, and you'll learn from your mistakes, and it's okay to make mistakes. And that's where photography, for me is such a fascinating subject. I mean, as I say, I'm mature hobbyist, but it's all consuming, you know, I not only take photographs, I've got my YouTube channel, I've got a podcast myself, which is called the Irish photography podcast, I have a number of Facebook groups that I've created over the years to help people in their journey, and to really get more involved in the whole aspect of how beneficial photography can be. So that's a quick intro, I suppose really, I know, we'll probably expand on a few doors as the conversation will go. But it is definitely a great topic and a great subject and a great thing to be able to have a great skill set to be able to have in your bag. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  3:20  Now Wow, that's crazy. Like you do all that well, you know, doing a full time job or running a business as you say that. And so what is it that got you started into photography? What was that first thing that make you you know what, this is awesome. And I really just want to do more of it. Darren J Spoonley  3:39  It's an interesting question. For me, it's something that started at a very, very young age, my brother was always into photography, and I shared a room with him. And he was back in the film days, and he would turn the room into a darkroom. So we had the doors closed windows blacked out, the red light will go on, you know that you wouldn't if you were in the room, you couldn't leave. And if you're outside the room, you couldn't come in. I kind of grew up with it all the time. He was very smart. And what he did is that when he was developing his firm solutions, he didn't spend any of the solutions on his side of the room. He's built all the solutions on my side of the room. So all of my sheets and everything else were ended everything from all the solutions from developing film. And I would have always had a camera of some sorts. I remember when I've probably been my teenage years, I kind of got my first digital camera, it was a one megapixel camera, and I was wow, look at this thing. You know, I'd take my images and there they were, okay, people always say to me, Oh, I didn't pay for photography, but I never really thought about I just take some photographs of inanimate objects. But the catalyst for me was probably in around 2013 Because in 2008, I got my first DSLR and it was a Canon 1000 D. And I got my first couple of shots and I'm thinking well, yeah, okay, this could be interesting, you know, you kind of get a small bit of bravado thinking that you're good, you can get a couple of shots. And this is before I ever shared anything on social media or anything like that. It's just me taking images. And in 2013 When I got married, actually I went on it honeymoon, I went to Borneo on my honeymoon. And I brought my camera and I was thinking, Okay, I'm gonna get some epic shots here. You know, we went to Borneo, I wanted to get some photographs of the orangutangs and everything else, all the wildlife. And I quickly learned that I hadn't got a clue. Because I was on a boat. It was very interesting story. Actually, we were on a river cruise. We got up one morning. And the guides that was quick, we're in luck, guys. You know, there's a few pygmy elephants along the bank. And I was thinking about picking the elephants. I didn't know anything about picking the elephant. So Indian elephants ever renewable pygmy elephants. So of course, I was really excited to go see these. And of course, I had my camera. But when I started taking photographs, I quickly became very frustrated because I'm looking at the back of the camera, and I couldn't expose them, right? Every single image was blurred, and I didn't know what I was doing wrong. And I kind of said, Okay, should I go into auto here and try and get these photos? At least I had something but I didn't want to do that. I wanted to, you know, proceed on to take the photographs. I No, no, because I said after 230 2013 Alright, I better learn how to do this right. I better learn what went wrong today, if ever was in situation again, I could take those images. And it transpires that the lens that I was using didn't have image stabilisation. That was the first thing. Second thing is I was on a boat. So the boat was moving. I was shooting into a bank, which was covered by trees. So it was in shadow. And my exposure time then would have been too long. And I didn't really understand that. So in 2013, I said, Okay, I'm going to learn how to do this. And it kind of started my journey, which is now just nine years ago to stage but I kind of went gung ho into photography at that point. And it's been something that has consumed me, like I said, it's been something that has been really rewarding. I've met a lot of people through photography, I've had a lot of close friends through photography. And it's something I think that I really wanted to understand what went wrong, but also, how can I get better? So that was the catalyst 3d, you know, so it's been there since a young age, but 2013 was that little bit of a button that after I got back from Borneo, I was damaged, all the images that I thought I had, I think I got two images that weren't blurred, but at least I have some blurry images of pygmy elephants anyway. Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt  7:03  That is hilarious. And it's funny because I started photography because of a trip as well. So I could definitely relate to that. And yeah, that's, that's, it's so funny how. And I have I've got another experience where I mean, this is this was back, you know, when I was already started photography, I know what I'm doing. But I made a mistake. And it like, all of my shots, or that I want it was blurry. Yes. It was a good job. I was blurry, unfortunately. So I know exactly what you mean. So was there a particular reason that make you want to buy DSLR? Or, you know, you just thought, you know, what, you know, because what you see from your brother and stuff, and you know, you think to yourself, I think I'll give this a go. But what was that reason that make you buy DSLR to begin with? Darren J Spoonley  7:53  I think it was because I would have had point in shoots before then. And I wanted to have a lot more control. And I knew that I had to have more control in the different lights in different circumstances and such like that, and there was a deal. And I said, Okay, I have to go gotta get the deal. You know what, that's reason 32 for gas, which gear acquisition syndrome is a deal that you can pass up. But I had to take that I said, Okay, you know what, and you know, it's interesting people ask me, Why do I shoot canon, I still shoot canon. You know, a lot of people they start off on one type of camera and they stick with their camera unless they move to Sony, most people would have moved away from Canon Sony, Canon or Nikon over to Sony, unless you started the Pentax then you had no choice because you can't really get a Pentax gear now. I started on on canon, and I stopped and I had my 1000 D. And then I quickly kind of said, Okay, I want to get something better from this. So I moved to Canon 70 Because I had the lenses already, I said, Okay, I can interchange my lenses. I don't have to change everything else. My 70 D was a very interesting camera until it decided that it would go for a swim in the sea. And obviously it didn't work out very well for it. So I took the plunge at that point and said, Okay, it's time for me to move away from crop sensor. And I wanted to go to full frame. So I bought 60. And I still have my 60 and it's a phenomenally good camera. It's been my trusty workhorse for a number of years. But around two years ago, I then took the jump away from DSLR into mirrorless. And of course, because I had invested in a number of different lenses then over the years, I said Okay, keep all those lenses, but now I'm going to mirrorless Oh, hang on, there's an adapter so I can get an EF to an RF adapter. So now I went and I got the eusr and the USR has been a phenomenal camera. I don't think I'd ever move away from Canon. Now I've had some very lucky opportunities here to work with Canon and Ireland. So I've managed to have the eusr Six usr five, and I'm soon to be getting the USR three as well to give it a go but they're really just to get my hands on and get my feeling my thoughts for them but a DSLR is a phenomenal camera to have because gives you more control. And with the interchangeable lens